Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

[Danny_Dravot]

From your description possibly Affray, certainly Assault and perhaps ABH, GBH or GBH with intent. AGAI is tantermount to perverting the course of justice.

you know absolutely nothing about the incident....

 

[Stonker]

assaulting an officer was a much more serious offence than striking a mere SNCO.

AA55 gave clear guidance, for the offence of Drunkenness, that SNCOs and Officers should not intervene in person for fear of aggravating a bad situation by creating opportunities for a befuddled troop to commit further, possibly more serious, offences.

 

[Bubbles_Barker]

I have been wracking my brains. He preceded a chap called Peter Hollins IIRC. I cannot for the life of me remember his name though but a subby mate of mine married his daughter. Like most of these things it will come to me at about 3am when least I expect it.

Fast forward a while and Peter Hollins, who Iiked a lot, but who could be quite grumpy, was peering out of the windows as said subbie's troop (who I have to admit to being somewhat the blue-eyed boy, at least in comparison to the rest of us) were returning from swimming their stalwarts in the rhine basin. They looked in rag order I must say, causing the CO to hurrumph loud enough for most around him to hear, me included.

"well" he said

"Mister X (no names no pack drill) managed to marry the last CO's daughter. I wonder what he is going to do to impress me?"

Marty Heslop?

 

[stacker1]

Would it? Does a punch up between 2 grown men always end up as a police matter? Not where I'm from....

It generally does if one of them makes a complaint.

 

[wetsmonkey]

I didn't say it was equivalent to civvy street, just that it was at least equivalent to what ORs would likely receive.

I’m talking about an OR, who receives a criminal record, and possible imprisonment for an assault, who has his career curtailed and still has the legacy of that criminal record when he is out of the military.

I’m not talking about a civilian.

 

[Bubbles_Barker]

Do you extend that to fights between ORs?

Certainly not - they’d have been proper fights. Officers getting involved in Naafi punch ups risked an escalation of unintended disciplinary consequence that would have done nobody any good.

 

[wetsmonkey]

Whoever would have thought that battering a work colleague would have consequences?

Not a criminal record apparently.

 

[Bubbles_Barker]

How does that compare with a criminal record and possible imprisonment, that would equally end a career and leave a traceable legacy in civvy street.

Is that what happens when folks get cautioned for affray or breach of the peace?

What do class warriors get?

 

[wetsmonkey]

Would it? Does a punch up between 2 grown men always end up as a police matter? Not where I'm from....

If one of them goes to “the authorities”, in this case a unit guard room and makes a complaint it normally does, as depicted in this account.

Sufficient evidence of the matter must have existed for the bloke to have accepted The AGAI and lost what he did.

 

[Caecilius]

I’m talking about an OR, who receives a criminal record, and possible imprisonment for an assault, who has his career curtailed and still has the legacy of that criminal record when he is out of the military.

I’m not talking about a civilian.

Apologies, I misunderstood.

I've never seen an OR receive a criminal record for similar, although I'm sure it happens occasionally. I have seen them get much less, and I've seen people who've done worse soldiering on and having a great career after a spell in MCTC (including one of the CSgts in my coy at RMAS).

 

[wetsmonkey]

Apologies, I misunderstood.

I've never seen an OR receive a criminal record for similar, although I'm sure it happens occasionally. I have seen them get much less, and I've seen people who've done worse soldiering on and having a great career after a spell in MCTC (including one of the CSgts in my coy at RMAS).

I’m fairly sure that plenty of NCOs have received criminal records and in some cases detention for assaulting subordinates.

With a knock on career effect, which yes maybe overcome, but the criminal record doesn’t ever fully go away.

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

you know absolutely nothing about the incident....

So?

 

[wetsmonkey]

Is that what happens when folks get cautioned for affray or breach of the peace?

What do class warriors get?

Affray, is a very little charged offence, due to CPS disliking it. If you receive a caution or are found guilty of assault in court, you have a criminal record for assault, BoP rarely ever results in a charge, and is a tactical move mostly to get people away from somewhere before they go on to commit an offence.

No police officer would arrest for BoP if a substantive offence of assault was disclosed.

 

[Danny_Dravot]

So?

It may have been self-defence, defence of another, or any manner of other legal reasons to strike the third party. Your suggestion that it is tantamount to perverting the course of justice without knowing the facts is ludicrous.

 

[Bubbles_Barker]

Affray, is a very little charged offence, due to CPS disliking it. If you receive a caution or are found guilty of assault in court, you have a criminal record for assault, BoP rarely ever results in a charge, and is a tactical move mostly to get people away from somewhere before they go on to commit an offence.

No police officer would arrest for BoP if a substantive offence of assault was disclosed.

Quite.

Does every punch up on the streets end up with the miscreants getting a criminal record?

 

[stacker1]

It may have been self-defence, defence of another, or any manner of other legal reasons to strike the third party. Your suggestion that it is tantamount to perverting the course of justice without knowing the facts is ludicrous.

If it had been self defence, the younger officer would probably not grass him up, and the bloke would have refused any punishment.

 

[wetsmonkey]

Quite.

Does every punch up on the streets end up with the miscreants getting a criminal record?

If the right components are present. Obviously not all, but you know that.

 

[Bubbles_Barker]

If the right components are present. Obviously not all, but you know that.

Similar to punch ups in the Officers’ Mess then eh?

 

[Caecilius]

defence of another

This.

 

[Stonker]

Similar to punch ups in the Officers’ Mess then eh?

Delete "officer's mess", Insert "playground".

Point reinforced?