Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

[OllieReeder]

Probably the type of chap who, when asked as to his service during WWI, remarked, 'Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?'

Despite incredibly stiff competition, almost certainly the maddest officer ever to hold a British commission. Also. half Belgian so a great one for "Name famous Belgians."

 

[Stonker]

ETA: I recall an interesting article in a BAR of a few years ago that basically explained the historical roots of the British Army's fetish about having 18 year old subbies commanding platoons

I'd like to read that. And I applaud the choice of 'fetish' as very apt.

 

[Stonker]

ANTELOPE - a couple of days later, after the UXO exploded deep inside.
COVENTRY - within 20 mins, and took two bombs to achieve.

Didn't pay to be a vessel affiliated to my old mob . . . .

 

[Caecilius]

I've witnessed a couple of fights between officers, they often didn't last very long and nobody would have ever entertained the idea of the ROS or Guard getting involved.

Absolutely not their business.

Several years back I was lucky enough to have a truly phenomenal RLC instructor for a staff course. He was one of the best officers I've met, and was on a golden career path (MA to a 3*, etc) until a couple of months before I met him. Obviously that not the type of officer who usually finds themselves at Warminster.

Unfortunately he'd given a more junior officer a (deserved) kicking, and presumably done it rather effectively given that he was a former corps boxing champion. Even more unfortunately, the officer he slapped around went to the guardroom and got it all put on record. Net result was a major AGAI, removed from post blameworthy, career effectively over. That's at least as serious a punishment as you'd expect had an OR done something similar.

 

[pimpernel]

Probably the type of chap who, when asked as to his service during WWI, remarked, 'Frankly, I had enjoyed the war… and why do people want peace if the war is so much fun?'

Yes, saw that. He was a little odd at the best of times!

 

[Truxx]

Was that one of the French brothers or a predecessor?

I have been wracking my brains. He preceded a chap called Peter Hollins IIRC. I cannot for the life of me remember his name though but a subby mate of mine married his daughter. Like most of these things it will come to me at about 3am when least I expect it.

Fast forward a while and Peter Hollins, who Iiked a lot, but who could be quite grumpy, was peering out of the windows as said subbie's troop (who I have to admit to being somewhat the blue-eyed boy, at least in comparison to the rest of us) were returning from swimming their stalwarts in the rhine basin. They looked in rag order I must say, causing the CO to hurrumph loud enough for most around him to hear, me included.

"well" he said

"Mister X (no names no pack drill) managed to marry the last CO's daughter. I wonder what he is going to do to impress me?"

 

[wetsmonkey]

Several years back I was lucky enough to have a truly phenomenal RLC instructor for a staff course. He was one of the best officers I've met, and was on a golden career path (MA to a 3*, etc) until a couple of months before I met him. Obviously that not the type of officer who usually finds themselves at Warminster.

Unfortunately he'd given a more junior officer a (deserved) kicking, and presumably done it rather effectively given that he was a former corps boxing champion. Even more unfortunately, the officer he slapped around went to the guardroom and got it all put on record. Net result was a major AGAI, removed from post blameworthy, career effectively over. That's at least as serious a punishment as you'd expect had an OR done something similar.

How does that compare with a criminal record and possible imprisonment, that would equally end a career and leave a traceable legacy in civvy street.

 

[Truxx]

There are plenty of 16-17 year olds driving tractors and trailers in most parts of the countryside, which can weigh up to 31t.

These days there are lots of youngsters driving HGV

The Services always did (crown exemption) but now civvie street has jumped in the cab, wound down the window and stuck a youthful elbow out:

As of 2016, the minimum ages to drive large vehicles are:

• Class C and Class C+E - 18 to 20 years old if you have a CPC qualification. 21 years old is the minimum age otherwise.
• Class C1 and Class C1+E - 18 years old.
• Class D - 17 years old for members of the armed forces. 18 years old following a PCV test and with a valid Driver CPC, limited to local services. 20 years old following a PCV test and with a valid Driver CPC, limited to UK roads. Otherwise, the standard minimum age is 21 years old following a PCV test and with a valid Driver CPC.
• Class D1 - 21 years old, subject to eligibility criteria.

 

[Caecilius]

How does that compare with a criminal record and possible imprisonment, that would equally end a career and leave a traceable legacy in civvy street.

I didn't say it was equivalent to civvy street, just that it was at least equivalent to what ORs would likely receive.

 

[stacker1]

Several years back I was lucky enough to have a truly phenomenal RLC instructor for a staff course. He was one of the best officers I've met, and was on a golden career path (MA to a 3*, etc) until a couple of months before I met him. Obviously that not the type of officer who usually finds themselves at Warminster.

Unfortunately he'd given a more junior officer a (deserved) kicking, and presumably done it rather effectively given that he was a former corps boxing champion. Even more unfortunately, the officer he slapped around went to the guardroom and got it all put on record. Net result was a major AGAI, removed from post blameworthy, career effectively over. That's at least as serious a punishment as you'd expect had an OR done something similar.

Whoever would have thought that battering a work colleague would have consequences?

 

[stacker1]

I didn't say it was equivalent to civvy street, just that it was at least equivalent to what ORs would likely receive.

If a Cpl paneled a tom especially an ex boxer, he'd be lucky to keep his rank and his liberty after his court martial.

 

[Stonker]

He preceded a chap called Peter Hollins IIRC

Alamein Company, SMC 5. Not a bad bloke as Paras go.

Last seen (by me) as an SO2[?] summink or other at a District[?] HQ, some-when in the late 1990s.

I'll need hypnotherapy support to recover the rest of the data for that memory fragment, I think

 

[Truxx]

Alamein Company, SMC 5. Not a bad bloke as Paras go.

Last seen (by me) as an SO2[?] summink or other at a District[?] HQ, some-when in the late 1990s.

I'll need hypnotherapy support to recover the rest of the data for that memory fragment, I think

Not sure if we are talking the same bloke. The one I am on about commanded 3 Armoured Div Transport Regiment in about 1978

 

[Stonker]

Not sure if we are talking the same bloke. The one I am on about commanded 3 Armoured Div Transport Regiment in about 1978

Probably not, then - but the 'grumpy' bit would fit

 

[Archimedes]

Dick O'Connor and Carton de Wiart went under the wire from their POW Camp together with what seemed to be most of the captured General Staff in The Middle East, and were on the run in Italy for 8 days, Neame as an ex Sapper was involved in the deign of the tunnel.
I will forever ask how did someone with one eye and one hand remain OTR for that length of time!

Completely O/T, but let's not forget Admiral Walter Cowan - who was captured in North Africa after attaching himself as a sort of liaison officer to an Indian Cavalry regiment on the basis that the Commandos with whom he normally worked weren't doing much at the time. Captured after taking on an Italian tank with his Webley; repatriated in 1943 as the Italians had never quite worked out what a 71-year old Admiral wearing Commander's rank slides was doing fighting with a cavalry unit and assumed that he must have been visiting them. Assuming he was clearly far too old to be a combatant, they repatriated him, whereupon he rejoined the Commandos and was charging about Italy and the Adriatic for the rest of the war... Quite possibly the only man with the Sudan Medal, the South Africa Medal, the World War 1 medal set and the World War 2 medal set. And two DSOs, with a gap of a mere 47 years between the gazetting of the first and second awards.

The RN let him drive, IIRC...

 

[Caecilius]

If a Cpl paneled a tom especially an ex boxer, he'd be lucky to keep his rank and his liberty after his court martial.

I doubt it would ever get that far, and even if it did the RMP would struggle to get it over the line with no witnesses present.

I've seen more serious incidents between ORs get much less punishment.

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

Several years back I was lucky enough to have a truly phenomenal RLC instructor for a staff course. He was one of the best officers I've met, and was on a golden career path (MA to a 3*, etc) until a couple of months before I met him. Obviously that not the type of officer who usually finds themselves at Warminster.

Unfortunately he'd given a more junior officer a (deserved) kicking, and presumably done it rather effectively given that he was a former corps boxing champion. Even more unfortunately, the officer he slapped around went to the guardroom and got it all put on record. Net result was a major AGAI, removed from post blameworthy, career effectively over. That's at least as serious a punishment as you'd expect had an OR done something similar.

From your description possibly Affray, certainly Assault and perhaps ABH, GBH or GBH with intent. AGAI is tantermount to perverting the course of justice.

 

[stacker1]

I doubt it would ever get that far, and even if it did the RMP would struggle to get it over the line with no witnesses present.

I've seen more serious incidents between ORs get much less punishment.

And I've seen them packed off to MCTC.

 

[Truxx]

Probably not, then - but the 'grumpy' bit would fit

This Hollins inherited a German PSA headshed (remember the PSA?) who was a bit of an un-reconstructed Nazi. Hollins got so fed up with him and others from the local german establishment (the barracks was in Duisburg) that he purchased the biggest print that he could of a Lancaster bomber and hung it on the wall behind his desk.

 

[Danny_Dravot]

How does that compare with a criminal record and possible imprisonment, that would equally end a career and leave a traceable legacy in civvy street.

Would it? Does a punch up between 2 grown men always end up as a police matter? Not where I'm from....