Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

[Auld-Yin]

Lawyers can be called for jury service, the same as policemen.

Thanks for that. Recent change or another urban myth busted?

 

[par avion]

Thanks for that. Recent change or another urban myth busted?

As far as the police are concerned it changed a couple of decades back. At one time they were banned from jury service.

 

[Mr_Fingerz]

Thanks for that. Recent change or another urban myth busted?

Early 2000s. Customs and Excise Officers are liable too.

 

[Wightsparker]

You really don’t understand the law do you. Persons are presumed innocent until proven guilty. There are many tens of thousands of people who are guilty of crimes they have never been convicted of.

Gasp. I'm appalled.

 

[BuggerAll]

Thanks for that. Recent change or another urban myth busted?

Not in Scotland. We still have sensible laws making lawyers, plod etc ineligible for jury service and SP can apply for an exception.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/scs---court-users/juryhighcourtsheriffcourt.pdf?sfvrsn=2

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

You really don’t understand the law do you. Persons are presumed innocent until proven guilty. There are many tens of thousands of people who are guilty of crimes they have never been convicted of.

You really don't understand the Law, or lateral thinking. Even the dogs on the street know people who have committed crimes either don't make it to Court or are acquitted but neither circumstance makes them Guilty in Law.

 

[CC_TA]

You really don’t understand the law do you. Persons are presumed innocent until proven guilty. There are many tens of thousands of people who are guilty of crimes they have never been convicted of.

Er, no conviction = innocent.



...you know, the opposite of guilty

 

[Auld-Yin]

I think we have gone round this roundabout enough times and we all know who stands where! If there are more handbags then perhaps the poo-poo thread, thataway -------------------->

 

[par avion]

Agreed, other than, in the eyes of the law he did not do it.

Or they did inflict the violence alleged but the jury decided that it was justified on the grounds of self defence.

 

[Alamo]

Er, no conviction = innocent.



...you know, the opposite of guilty

No, no conviction = presumed innocent.

 

[Provost]

As far as the police are concerned it changed a couple of decades back. At one time they were banned from jury service.

I think the word is 'exempted' rather than 'banned'.

I don't know how it is now, but there was quite a list of professions and callings who were exempted from jury service, including members of the clergy and vets. I believe the list still applies in NI.

 

[Alamo]

@twentyfirstoffoot you can chuck dumb bombs around however you like. But then there’s this:

Article 6 of the Human Rights Act 1988 provides citizens in our country the right to a fair and public trial or hearing in relation to both criminal and civil matters. Section 2 of Article 6 states , “Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law”.

Or if you prefer your law American:

A presumption of innocence means that any defendant in a criminal trial is assumed to be innocent until they have been proven guilty.

Or maybe European:

Everyone who has been charged shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.

 

[Jorrocks]

I think the word is 'exempted' rather than 'banned'.

I don't know how it is now, but there was quite a list of professions and callings who were exempted from jury service, including members of the clergy and vets. I believe the list still applies in NI.

I can only think that vets would be excluded in cases involving cruelty to animals.

 

[twentyfirstoffoot]

@twentyfirstoffoot you can chuck dumb bombs around however you like. But then there’s this:

Article 6 of the Human Rights Act 1988 provides citizens in our country the right to a fair and public trial or hearing in relation to both criminal and civil matters. Section 2 of Article 6 states , “Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law”.

Or if you prefer your law American:

A presumption of innocence means that any defendant in a criminal trial is assumed to be innocent until they have been proven guilty.

Or maybe European:

Everyone who has been charged shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.

You received the dumb as at the end of a trial the individual is no longer 'presumed' innocent which is a status granted within the trial. If not guilty the individual has been found to be innocent as the prosecution has not established guilt.

It is all about fair trials or do you thing that everyone acquitted of a charge has this special new status of presumed innocent for the rest of their lives?

 

[Provost]

I can only think that vets would be excluded in cases involving cruelty to animals.

As far as I know those exempted from jury service were exempted in all cases. It was a blanket exclusion.

 

[Alamo]

You received the dumb as at the end of a trial the individual is no longer 'presumed' innocent which is a status granted within the trial. If not guilty the individual has been found to be innocent as the prosecution has not established guilt.

It is all about fair trials or do you thing that everyone acquitted of a charge has this special new status of presumed innocent for the rest of their lives?

The status of ‘presumed innocent’ is the one we all live under, every day of our lives, until we are proved guilty. Specifically with regard to trials:

When you've been charged of a crime, you are assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. By the end of a criminal trial, you will either be declared "guilty" or "not guilty."Technically, the court never declares someone "innocent" because it is not necessary to prove actual innocence in order to be acquitted.

 

[BuggerAll]

I can only think that vets would be excluded in cases involving cruelty to animals.

I would imagine it’s more to do with the requirements to provide healthcare to animals but I don’t know.

 

[BuggerAll]

The status of ‘presumed innocent’ is the one we all live under, every day of our lives, until we are proved guilty. Specifically with regard to trials:

When you've been charged of a crime, you are assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. By the end of a criminal trial, you will either be declared "guilty" or "not guilty."Technically, the court never declares someone "innocent" because it is not necessary to prove actual innocence in order to be acquitted.

Sometimes the judge makes a point of mentioning that the defendant leaves without a stain on their character. Sometimes they don’t.

 

[CC_TA]

Sometimes the judge makes a point of mentioning that the defendant leaves without a stain on their character. Sometimes they don’t.

Sometimes they just say "see you again soon"

...a freind told me.

 

[Micawber]

Can someone explain the Scottish verdict of 'not proven ' please?

I know people say it means 'not guilty but don:t do it again' but in truth is the accused innocent or guilty at the end of the day?

Seems bizarre.