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Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

Not quite but nearly as noted before we can not serve Detention, I can't see why not really reduce to rank of Private and 'mind the cell door doesn't hit your backside'.
Provision is certainly there.

(2) An officer (including an officer on the Retired List) will be liable to be removed from the Service (including the Retired List) or have their commission terminated at any time for misconduct. They may, however, if the Defence Council so decide, be called upon to resign their commission or to retire. In such cases failure to submit a formal application to resign or to retire would involve removal or termination as decided by the Defence Council. An officer convicted by Court-Martial of misconduct but not sentenced by the Court to be dismissed from Her Majesty's Service may nevertheless be removed for misconduct under this clause.

(3) An officer who has not committed misconduct may at any time be called upon to retire, relinquish or resign their commission on grounds of unsuitability, incapacity, inefficiency or for any similar reason, should the circumstances, in the opinion of the Defence Council, require it. Alternatively, if the officer's commission carries with it a liability for reserve service, they may, if the Defence Council so decide, be called upon to apply for transfer to the reserve. If the officer fails to submit a formal application to retire, to resign, to relinquish their commission or to be transferred to the reserve when called upon to do so, their retirement, the relinquishment of their commission, their resignation or their transfer to the reserve will be effected compulsorily without such an application.

(4) An officer to whom the provisions of the preceding clauses do not apply may nevertheless be called upon to retire, relinquish or resign their commission or be transferred to the reserve, or be compulsorily retired or transferred to the reserve, or invalided, at any time, should the Defence Council consider this to be necessary. Termination under this clause does not in any way signify fault or blame on the part of the officer.'


Retirement, resignation, transfer to the reserve and relinquishment of commission, etc – officers (Chapter 38) (publishing.service.gov.uk)
 
Provision is certainly there.

(2) An officer (including an officer on the Retired List) will be liable to be removed from the Service (including the Retired List) or have their commission terminated at any time for misconduct. They may, however, if the Defence Council so decide, be called upon to resign their commission or to retire. In such cases failure to submit a formal application to resign or to retire would involve removal or termination as decided by the Defence Council. An officer convicted by Court-Martial of misconduct but not sentenced by the Court to be dismissed from Her Majesty's Service may nevertheless be removed for misconduct under this clause.

(3) An officer who has not committed misconduct may at any time be called upon to retire, relinquish or resign their commission on grounds of unsuitability, incapacity, inefficiency or for any similar reason, should the circumstances, in the opinion of the Defence Council, require it. Alternatively, if the officer's commission carries with it a liability for reserve service, they may, if the Defence Council so decide, be called upon to apply for transfer to the reserve. If the officer fails to submit a formal application to retire, to resign, to relinquish their commission or to be transferred to the reserve when called upon to do so, their retirement, the relinquishment of their commission, their resignation or their transfer to the reserve will be effected compulsorily without such an application.

(4) An officer to whom the provisions of the preceding clauses do not apply may nevertheless be called upon to retire, relinquish or resign their commission or be transferred to the reserve, or be compulsorily retired or transferred to the reserve, or invalided, at any time, should the Defence Council consider this to be necessary. Termination under this clause does not in any way signify fault or blame on the part of the officer.'


Retirement, resignation, transfer to the reserve and relinquishment of commission, etc – officers (Chapter 38) (publishing.service.gov.uk)
I never doubted that, but in the 21st Century all should be equal under the Law. Innocent until proved guilty yes, but equal on conviction.
 
I never doubted that, but in the 21st Century all should be equal under the Law. Innocent until proved guilty yes, but equal on conviction.

We're all equal. It's just that some of us are more equal than others.;)
 
The other idiocy Court Martial Boards having to be made up of people two ranks above the accused, why for goodness sake, The Nick Welch trial may have to put civilians on the Board as we don't have enough full Generals, utter nonsense.
Is the two rank separation thing a binding legal provision, or is it just a longstanding convention ?

Anybody ?
 
And this
 
Thanks. So in the Welch situation the President can be of the same rank as the defendant, so long as he/she is senior within that rank. Brigadiers can be lay members.

Shouldn't be too difficult.
All depends who buggered who at school then.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Officers are now being treated the same way now as Other Ranks have been for centuries.
Yeah, like no officer has ever been disciplined?

Blimey, 30 years ago my Ops Offr was court martialled and jailed for two years for fraud. Punishing officers is nothing new...

1611161427295.png
 
Lessons will be learnt?
That's always a good 'n
Cynic, but horribly true.
Pinched face of senior officer trundling out the old mantra - we are learning lessons and it won't happen again. False travel and over night accommodation claims are as old as the hills, once the preserve of the TA who knew how to milk a system! Senior officers just forgot to renew their train season tickets when they were finishing their time at MOD, knew two Generals who slipped up there.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Yeah, like no officer has ever been disciplined?

Blimey, 30 years ago my Ops Offr was court martialled and jailed for two years for fraud. Punishing officers is nothing new...

View attachment 541252
And 30 years ago the fact your Ops Offer was jailed for fraud proves just what exactly? Was there a list of officers queued up for court martial then also? Was the Oops Officer court martialed or civi court?

There is definitely less sweeping under the carpet by the officer corps nowadays.
 
And 30 years ago the fact your Ops Offer was jailed for fraud proves just what exactly? Was there a list of officers queued up for court martial then also? Was the Oops Officer court martialed or civi court?

There is definitely less sweeping under the carpet by the officer corps nowadays.
We had a Lt banged up at a GCM for going on a two years walkabout, sending post cards from exotic locations hardly endeared him to the RMP, let alone the CO of 1 Gordons who regularly got one as he enjoyed his morning coffee in the anti room.
But nowadays the carpet is smaller and the scrutiny of the Officer Corps is more forensic, the advent of the camera on the mobile phone hasn't helped. Thank heavens that wasn't around then, but had it been then the mess Webley might have been used a few more times.
Regimental honour must be maintained!
 
Not quite but nearly as noted before we can not serve Detention, I can't see why not really reduce to rank of Private and 'mind the cell door doesn't hit your backside'.

I think I read somewhere that you can't be reduced to a lower rank than the one you joined as. So for graduate officers who are 2Lts on day one, I imagine they can't be reduced to Pte. Those who are non-grads are OCdts, so their sub rank is Pte; that may be different.

On the other hand a) it may be complete barrack-room lawyer shit that I heard years ago, and/or b) maybe those who commission on day 1 are enlisted as Ptes on Day 1 and commissioned immediately thereafter.

The whole thing needs to be looked at from the ground up. There are so many rules, regulations and procedures that stem from times gone by. For example, officers can't/shouldn't drive military vehicles. Why the hell not? Why do DE officers in technical corps only "lead"? Bit of a waste having a civil engineering degree if you're an RE captain and you're "just" the Sqn 2IC or Ops Offr. It seems to work for the RN and RAF, having officers "do". These are just a few examples, there are many others where the Army does stuff in a certain way because that's how Haig did it, or similar.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
And 30 years ago the fact your Ops Offer was jailed for fraud proves just what exactly? Was there a list of officers queued up for court martial then also? Was the Oops Officer court martialed or civi court?

There is definitely less sweeping under the carpet by the officer corps nowadays.
It proves that officers were court martialed back in the day when it came to crime. Both I and my predecessor were caught in the splash - it most definitely didn't go under the carpet. A year earlier as Bn Adjt I was marching a fellow captain into the Bulford CM Centre on a (frankly risible) charge of theft (or was it fraud, can't remember) and he was dismissed the service. The Army lost an excellent ATO as a result.

It'd be interesting to see how many officers were CM'd back then but I don't believe it has ever just been 'salt of the earth' Toms that have been the subject of discipline.
 
But nowadays the carpet is smaller and the scrutiny of the Officer Corps is more forensic, the advent of the camera on the mobile phone hasn't helped.

Its also because juniors have more of voice when they are charged with an offence that some time earlier an officer had also committed but made a donation to the CO charity of choice or similar.
Also 30 years ago, you couldnt send an email to the Sun detailing Lt Col Bloggs acting like a ****.
 
Its also because juniors have more of voice when they are charged with an offence that some time earlier an officer had also committed but made a donation to the CO charity of choice or similar.
Also 30 years ago, you couldnt send an email to the Sun detailing Lt Col Bloggs acting like a ****.
Your right they have now, and in the day we wouldn't dream of sending a letter to the press.
Also seem to have written a few cheques (been encouraged to) after the event, heavens only knows to who!
 
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