Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

Auld-Yin

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What I said is the RMO did not issue wishy-washy biff chits which gave little information requiring someone to call the Med Centre to see what was meant, which I found very strange way for an MO to operate. If he said no PT then no PT it was. If there was remedial PT required then he said it. No biff chits to be decided by crystal ball which seems to be the type Stacker saw and interpreted in his own strange way. Medics were very clear on their intentions rather than a case of 50 guesses.

Mind you, we seem to have moved a bit from Stacker issuing weapons to people with mental health issues who the MO has decided should not be handling weapons. I really have no idea why MOs were posted to Stackers units as he seemed to do what he pleased rather than follow the written instructions of the MO, I.e. the biff chit.
 
Amdt 37 - May 19. Thanks, must be a relatively recent change, what do they say explicitly?
Not at work. IIRC it’s part 1, chapter 3.

Officer Cadets are Officers (but not commissioned) on attestation. ORs on the course remain ORs until the pass out parade.
 
Well, (and this is from the doctors) being exempt weapons doesnt mean being exempt their cleaning, it generally means dont let them have ammunition as well whether that's guard/exercises/ranges.


But ignoring that, lets pretend Pte White is banned from weapon cleaning, how many people know? When his mate Pte Black gets a message he needs to report to the SSM/RSM/RMP, does he know that Pte White cant be his mate and take his rifle back for him?

Exempt weapons handling means just that.

Some smoking cessation drugs make people exempt weapons handling.

It’s not hard to enforce.
 
Not at work. IIRC it’s part 1, chapter 3.

Officer Cadets are Officers (but not commissioned) on attestation. ORs on the course remain ORs until the pass out parade.
How interesting! And how strange to be an officer but not hold a commission? Back in the early ‘80s and beyond, we Non-Graduates were Private Soldiers until we were commissioned and swapped our eight figure number for one of six. The Grads however were commissioned from the get-go.
 

Bubbles_Barker

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Apparently (and I use that term most explicitly) 7X commander has been suspended pending investigation - if true, falling like flies.
Oh dear - which school are his little darlings at?
 
Exempt weapons handling means just that.

Some smoking cessation drugs make people exempt weapons handling.

It’s not hard to enforce.

Weapon handling isn't weapon cleaning.
Speak to the doctors instead of assuming a harmless lump of metal is a danger without ammunition.
I'm giving up smoking so I don't have to clean weapons :roll:
 

Brotherton Lad

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Kit Reviewer
How interesting! And how strange to be an officer but not hold a commission? Back in the early ‘80s and beyond, we Non-Graduates were Private Soldiers until we were commissioned and swapped our eight figure number for one of six. The Grads however were commissioned from the get-go.

Yes. I was one of those young graduates in 1978 and a probationary 2Lt from Day 1.
 
My twopence worth (FWIW).

With regards to soldiers shooting themselves (paraphrasing a quote from Winston Churchill I think).

'We shouldn't be surprised that (soldier suicide) occurs we should be surprised that it doesn't occur more often'.

IMHO all of us on here only see a tiny 'snap shot' of the Army regardless of our backgrounds. A generalisation I admit but I can think of a multitude of times I could have picked up a weapon and slotted myself with some buckshee rounds kept from a range day in my locker from months if not years previously.

Trouble with managing recruits with MH (or 'biffs') is that part of rehabilitation is not to exclude them so much that they cannot escape the stigma of being a 'biff' or an 'admin/MH case'. This in turn makes it very difficult to manage especially in a full on busy working Unit.

Yes, it is all down to brilliant man management and looking after our people at all levels but life is just not that easy.

Without wishing to lecture anyone on here my experience in some Units was that so much time and effort was placed on the soldiers who were 'visible' on the At Risk Register (insert whatever it is called now) that Cpl X or Pte Y out of the blue kills himself or tries to.

'We shouldn't be surprised that (soldier suicide) occurs we should be surprised that it doesn't occur more often'.

In fact, while typing this (and to get roughly back on thread) how about:

'We shouldn't be surprised that (CCA fraud) occurs we should be surprised that it doesn't occur more often'!
 
Weapon handling isn't weapon cleaning.
Speak to the doctors instead of assuming a harmless lump of metal is a danger without ammunition.
I'm giving up smoking so I don't have to clean weapons :roll:
Weapons handling means handling a weapon. What part of your body do you use to carry and clean a weapon?

An App 9 says “safety critical tasks” and has a box marked “weapons”. Not “weapons except for weapons cleaning”

And you need to be both a serving soldier and on the drugs to get the chit. Neither of which, you are so you need not worry about getting yourself excused weapon cleaning.
 
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Not at work. IIRC it’s part 1, chapter 3.

Officer Cadets are Officers (but not commissioned) on attestation. ORs on the course remain ORs until the pass out parade.
To add to the confusion, which the clever wordsmiths of the Staff always create, it is likely that most soldiers on the CC will be of the rank of LCpl or above which would cause a whole heap of confusion if the OCdts were still considered Class 4 Ptes. But better still, unlike the Navy, which has Rates and Hands etc, every soldier above the rank of Pte is in fact an Officer, it's what the O in JNCO, SNCO and WO stands for, ;-)
 
We were not just talking about the Company Biff's, but people who had been signed off with mental health issues that dictated they should not handle weapons. Stacks seems to think it OK and claims he is backed up by the medical profession.

I never knew anyone directly that was signed off with MH on their chit in a duty coy, perhaps the CoC found them somewhere quiet in HQ coy while they were treated or whatever, so fair enough I can't comment on that.
 
My twopence worth (FWIW).

With regards to soldiers shooting themselves (paraphrasing a quote from Winston Churchill I think).

'We shouldn't be surprised that (soldier suicide) occurs we should be surprised that it doesn't occur more often'.

IMHO all of us on here only see a tiny 'snap shot' of the Army regardless of our backgrounds. A generalisation I admit but I can think of a multitude of times I could have picked up a weapon and slotted myself with some buckshee rounds kept from a range day in my locker from months if not years previously.

Trouble with managing recruits with MH (or 'biffs') is that part of rehabilitation is not to exclude them so much that they cannot escape the stigma of being a 'biff' or an 'admin/MH case'. This in turn makes it very difficult to manage especially in a full on busy working Unit.

Yes, it is all down to brilliant man management and looking after our people at all levels but life is just not that easy.

Without wishing to lecture anyone on here my experience in some Units was that so much time and effort was placed on the soldiers who were 'visible' on the At Risk Register (insert whatever it is called now) that Cpl X or Pte Y out of the blue kills himself or tries to.

'We shouldn't be surprised that (soldier suicide) occurs we should be surprised that it doesn't occur more often'.

In fact, while typing this (and to get roughly back on thread) how about:

'We shouldn't be surprised that (CCA fraud) occurs we should be surprised that it doesn't occur more often'!
Part of the issue is that the army, and particularly teeth arm sub-units, used to be incredibly homogenous. Recruits were predominantly young white men aged between 15 - 25, drawn from a tough working class demographic. They had similar formative experiences and chose the army over labouring or industrial jobs. All recruits were put through a harsh (sometimes brutal) basic training regime that largely filtered out anybody with vulnerabilities.

These generations required far fewer man management skills. Northern Ireland created psychological problems, but these were brushed under the carpet at unit level and there was no coherent approach or policy to MH issues. The main management challenges were keeping the lads busy and out of trouble.

The 'rave generation' presented a major challenge to army attitudes and assumptions. The army didn't adapt well to its newest recruits and there was a time warp sized generation gap and a culture clash in many units. It feels like something similar is happening with the (so called) snowflake generation. I think the army may have gone the other way and is placing too much emphasis on (perceived) individual needs and not enough on the corporate good.

I'm absolutely not an advocate of simply de-kitting problem soldiers, stamping their papers SNLR, and escorting them to the main gate. The old way was a bad way. People deserve better, whether they are recruits or veteran soldiers. But it is definitely kinder to ease some people back into civilian life.
 

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