Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

In general yes, via the appropriate medical chain. The same as anyone with a serious physical injury.
What if it’s recoverable, within a limited time frame - say six/twelve months?
 
What if it’s recoverable, within a limited time frame - say six/twelve months?
You cant tell if someone who is suicidal is ever going to recover.
 
You cant tell if someone who is suicidal is ever going to recover.
And quite clearly, one cannot tell if someone is suicidal and stop them in time. I know there was a risk matrix applied years ago.

I’m not sure I’d apply the same level of risk to someone back from a bad tour to someone who’s partner had just died to someone in a lot of debt though.

Lots of people have dark times and recover. Just like any other injury.
 
And quite clearly, one cannot tell if someone is suicidal and stop them in time. I know there was a risk matrix applied years ago.

I’m not sure I’d apply the same level of risk to someone back from a bad tour to someone who’s partner had just died to someone in a lot of debt though.

Lots of people have dark times and recover. Just like any other injury.

Being suicidal isn't the same as having a bad time.
If she was known risk (assuming the Mail is vaguely truthful) she should have been shown the door.
 
You cant tell if someone who is suicidal is ever going to recover.
Going from personal experience (albeit with the limited extent that one can understand the mind and motivations of another) many suicides make a decision to die long before they act on that tragic urge. They often spend a period, sometimes years, drifting through a minor hell of suicidal ideation. One day, there will be an (outwardly inexplicable) combination of circumstances and they will get it done.

I strongly believe that any serviceman or woman who is suicidal should be eased out of the armed forces. They should never have access to weapons or live ammo. That alone can save many, many lives. For all it's gregariousness, the army can be a uniquely lonely place if someone is in trouble. It only takes a minute or two of sudden brooding despair to reach for a weapon.
 

Choux Bun

Old-Salt
I won't argue that particular toss with you because it would clearly be futile.

I will say this: If a recruit or officer cadet displays serious mental issues (I don't mean the psychiatric equivalent of a head cold) the single kindest thing you can do is to discharge them. That can be done compassionately and they can be eased back into civilian life with as much support as possible.

If someone has displayed suicidal tendencies, they should never, ever, be in an environment where they have access to weapons and live ammunition. Particularly when they will be also be confronted with stress, extreme tiredness and possibly traumatic events. It is tantamount to murder.
Obtaining Security Vetting could also be problematical.
 
Nope. Not any more. LEs can transfer to some form of Reg C now. He’d have been a Traffic Officer when originally commissioned. He’s in a brigade HQ, I assume as COS.

Another bloke I know was commissioned as a TOT, but commanded a regiment, so again, I assume changed commission types.
I know who you are on about Mr Tom
 
Being suicidal isn't the same as having a bad time.
If she was known risk (assuming the Mail is vaguely truthful) she should have been shown the door.
It’s not, nor is having suicidal thoughts irrecoverable.

I don’t know the details of her case so wouldn’t want to speculate.
 
Obtaining Security Vetting could also be problematical.
After a bombing incident in NI when I nearly lost my life I was referred to the Dr's and was seeing a Psychiatrist, I was given an unofficial 'Stop it' by one of the SSgt's who I was friends with otherwise I would have lost my DV.

This is not the case now and as long as it's all declared and managed correctly there should be no issues
 
I strongly believe that any serviceman or woman who is suicidal should be eased out of the armed forces. They should never have access to weapons or live ammo. That alone can save many, many lives. For all it's gregariousness, the army can be a uniquely lonely place if someone is in trouble. It only takes a minute or two of sudden brooding despair to reach for a weapon.
No, it doesn’t. Access to service ammunition and weapons is strictly controlled. It would be easier to buy a cheap shotgun and get ammunition. Or, as the vast majority of service suicides demonstrate, use alternate means.
 
No, it doesn’t. Access to service ammunition and weapons is strictly controlled. It would be easier to buy a cheap shotgun and get ammunition. Or, as the vast majority of service suicides demonstrate, use alternate means.
So if you're on stag at 3AM and the weight of the world comes crashing down on you?

Or you're sat in a firebase on Ops, or you're a watchkeeper with a pistol strapped to your belt?

What if you're an unhappy recruit who is cleaning his weapon after a morning on the ranges and you lock yourself in the bog and shoot yourself with a buckshee round - it happened when I was in depot.

Suicidal people should not be in the armed forces. It's a high stress environment that also gives people the means to easily end their lives.
 
I won't argue that particular toss with you because it would clearly be futile.

I will say this: If a recruit or officer cadet displays serious mental issues (I don't mean the psychiatric equivalent of a head cold) the single kindest thing you can do is to discharge them. That can be done compassionately and they can be eased back into civilian life with as much support as possible.

If someone has displayed suicidal tendencies, they should never, ever, be in an environment where they have access to weapons and live ammunition. Particularly when they will be also be confronted with stress, extreme tiredness and possibly traumatic events. It is tantamount to murder.

Unless they actually say “I’m thinking of doing myself in”, how the hell do you know?

I have very recent, real life experience of this. I knew my friend was seriously upset due to a turn of life events, but not once did I think he was going to top himself. Not once. If he was still in the mob, should we have shown him the door?

It’s more a rhetorical question, I don’t expect a reply, but if you do, tread carefully. I’ve lost a mate.

In fact, we’ve all lost a mate.
 
So if you're on stag at 3AM and the weight of the world comes crashing down on you?

Or you're sat in a firebase on Ops, or you're a watchkeeper with a pistol strapped to your belt?

What if you're an unhappy recruit who is cleaning his weapon after a morning on the ranges and you lock yourself in the bog and shoot yourself with a buckshee round - it happened when I was in depot.

Suicidal people should not be in the armed forces. It's a high stress environment that also gives people the means to easily end their lives.

A soldier who has stepped forward and admitted having suicidal thoughts would not have access to weapons or ammunition and would not be in those situations.

My point is that should they be able to recover, they should be allowed to soldier on. I presume you think that if someone has had a suicidal thought once, they may never recover and will always be a risk?
 
A soldier who has stepped forward and admitted having suicidal thoughts would not have access to weapons or ammunition and would not be in those situations.

My point is that should they be able to recover, they should be allowed to soldier on. I presume you think that if someone has had a suicidal thought once, they may never recover and will always be a risk?
A soldier who has stepped forward and admitted having suicidal thoughts would not have access to weapons or ammunition and would not be in those situations.

I know of cases where the exact opposite happened.

My point is that should they be able to recover, they should be allowed to soldier on. I presume you think that if someone has had a suicidal thought once, they may never recover and will always be a risk?

Sadly, I think that is pretty much the case. I don't say that lightly, nor do I say it from a position of ignorance. I do have some knowledge of the subject. Though others may dispute my opinion - and are welcome to do so.

From an administrative perspective, I would compare a suicidal soldier to a soldier who experienced a seizure. He might live to be 100 and never have another seizure, but the army would still medically discharge him.
 
A soldier who has stepped forward and admitted having suicidal thoughts would not have access to weapons or ammunition and would not be in those situations.

I know of cases where the exact opposite happened.

My point is that should they be able to recover, they should be allowed to soldier on. I presume you think that if someone has had a suicidal thought once, they may never recover and will always be a risk?

Sadly, I think that is pretty much the case. I don't say that lightly, nor do I say it from a position of ignorance. I do have some knowledge of the subject. Though others may dispute my opinion - and are welcome to do so.

From an administrative perspective, I would compare a suicidal soldier to a soldier who experienced a seizure. He might live to be 100 and never have another seizure, but the army would still medically discharge him.

If you know of cases where people had been put on the SVRM, assessed as at risk and then allowed uncontrolled access to weapons and ammunition then that is a massive failing in process.
 
Unless they actually say “I’m thinking of doing myself in”, how the hell do you know?

I have very recent, real life experience of this. I knew my friend was seriously upset due to a turn of life events, but not once did I think he was going to top himself. Not once. If he was still in the mob, should we have shown him the door?

It’s more a rhetorical question, I don’t expect a reply, but if you do, tread carefully. I’ve lost a mate.

In fact, we’ve all lost a mate.
100% - Taff Langley one of the old lads from 7 Sigs recently took his own life after having MH problems relating to his time in Afghanistan
 
100% - Taff Langley one of the old lads from 7 Sigs recently took his own life after having MH problems relating to his time in Afghanistan

RIP, Certa Cito.

”Like“ was for agreement rather than Taff’s death.

I’m sure you remember the three lads at 7 in Bos too. Max, Paddy and then Si back in Germany. None of them could have been predicted.
 
A soldier who has stepped forward and admitted having suicidal thoughts would not have access to weapons or ammunition and would not be in those situations.

I know of cases where the exact opposite happened.

My point is that should they be able to recover, they should be allowed to soldier on. I presume you think that if someone has had a suicidal thought once, they may never recover and will always be a risk?

Sadly, I think that is pretty much the case. I don't say that lightly, nor do I say it from a position of ignorance. I do have some knowledge of the subject. Though others may dispute my opinion - and are welcome to do so.

From an administrative perspective, I would compare a suicidal soldier to a soldier who experienced a seizure. He might live to be 100 and never have another seizure, but the army would still medically discharge him.
Following a fairly recent death at a Ph2 training establishment everyone got counselling. One of the things that came out was that the individual had had a "top" weekend with his mates before doing the deed. No one saw it coming, nothing was wrong, they just decided to end it on a high.

Another very recent case the individual WAS on a list, and appeared to be doing well, was not a morale hoover and was liked and respected by all (within reason no doubt).

We need to accept that we're likely to see it in our careers and not be the cause of it ie put unnecessary pressure on people. More importantly we should be able to signpost people. To be fair help has always been available and people have much less room to be dicks now. What still isn't available in my opinion is training or support on how to deal with fragile people when you still have an output to meet.
 
It’s not, nor is having suicidal thoughts irrecoverable.
Why take the risk? The army can be extremely stressful with the addition to having weapons available.
 

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