Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

@Danny_Dravot you have liked this post.
A post that clearly states the officers send their kids to boarding school because its a better standard. Im fairly certain that isnt the point of CEA.
They, the children get a better standard of education because they are not moving; school, exam board, friends, even education systems as in the case of Scotland, every 18 months to two years. I had three cross border and one overseas posting whilst my children were at school, had they not been able to be at one school their education would have been totally compromised. There are no state boarding schools in Scotland, because whatever you say there needs to be a grandparent/relative nearby to deal with exeats and half terms.

You also totally forget the pull through value of CEA; no middle grade officer, 40ish,(the majority of ORs leaving point) two children 10ish, at least 15 years to serve, would contemplate staying on at the cost of his children's education. At that stage he/she is pensionable why would he/she stay. The Army has to show that there is a way to stay on that will also support the children.

Yes, the rules must be strict and be audited very robustly.
 
I managed to use ELCs once during my resettlement.
I have since tried to use ELCs since but it all got too difficult. Its funny, when you've been out in industry for a bit and then you have to do some Army type admin/applications, you realise just HOW bureaucratic the MoD is.
They will spend £100s trying to save a £1 or prevent a £1 being spent.
I got billed 2p for a plastic muzzle cover in 1995.. 36p to action it I think
 

Bodenplatte

War Hero
I got billed 2p for a plastic muzzle cover in 1995.. 36p to action it I think
Some ORs who were persistent absentees and offenders would run up considerable debit balances on their pay accounts. Until the 70s/early 80s those who were slated for dismissal from the service were retained until such time as they had repaid the debt by having restricted issues of pay. This could take months, years even, as the individual had to be paid a certain percentage of his pay and allowances. These people were employed in non-jobs just waiting until the debit balance on their pay account nudged over int the black.
Nobody seemed to realise that if a man was legally entitled to receive (say) 75% of his pay, then the useless git had to earn £100 and actually be paid £75 in order to reduce the debt by £25. So to recover (say) £100 the bloke had to earn £400, and actually draw £300. It was far cheaper to just write off the outstanding debt and kick the bloke out asap.

The army eventually caught on.
 
They, the children get a better standard of education because they are not moving; school, exam board, friends, even education systems as in the case of Scotland, every 18 months to two years. I had three cross border and one overseas posting whilst my children were at school, had they not been able to be at one school their education would have been totally compromised. There are no state boarding schools in Scotland, because whatever you say there needs to be a grandparent/relative nearby to deal with exeats and half terms.

You also totally forget the pull through value of CEA; no middle grade officer, 40ish,(the majority of ORs leaving point) two children 10ish, at least 15 years to serve, would contemplate staying on at the cost of his children's education. At that stage he/she is pensionable why would he/she stay. The Army has to show that there is a way to stay on that will also support the children.

Yes, the rules must be strict and be audited very robustly.
What was actually said:

1. Officers - Boarding School provided a better standard of education for their kids.

2. SNCO / WO - It provided continuity of education in their kids Secondary Education.

Which Danny liked. The 2nd option is what CEA is for, the first it isnt, that just a nice bonus.

There must be a big book of excuses that you lot must pass around among yourselves when defending CEA. Such as this example.

There are no state boarding schools in Scotland, because whatever you say there needs to be a grandparent/relative nearby to deal with exeats and half terms.

No mate, there does not need to be a grandparent or relative near by, that is yet just another bonus that you get but are not entitled to. There are literally 1000s of families (Civilian and as well as military), that either cant afford to be choosy or dont have relatives living close to a boarding school. How did all the pads that opted for Windsor school manage? How would a junior rank who could only afford a state boarding school manage?

These middle grade officers have the option of leaving and getting a job in civvie street that if they want to continue living in the same size house and still put their kids in boarding school would need earn around an extra 100k on top of their salary now. Lets not pretend the majority are going to be so lucky. The threat that they will all leave is an empty one, Im sure some might and some will get high paying jobs, the majority know they wont. The Army made 20000 people redundant a few years ago without breaking a sweat, dont think that 4000 bods across the entire armed forces are irreplaceable.


The Army need to show a way of having continuity at key points of a child education. Currently it open to people taking the piss.
 
Some ORs who were persistent absentees and offenders would run up considerable debit balances on their pay accounts. Until the 70s/early 80s those who were slated for dismissal from the service were retained until such time as they had repaid the debt by having restricted issues of pay. This could take months, years even, as the individual had to be paid a certain percentage of his pay and allowances. These people were employed in non-jobs just waiting until the debit balance on their pay account nudged over int the black.
Nobody seemed to realise that if a man was legally entitled to receive (say) 75% of his pay, then the useless git had to earn £100 and actually be paid £75 in order to reduce the debt by £25. So to recover (say) £100 the bloke had to earn £400, and actually draw £300. It was far cheaper to just write off the outstanding debt and kick the bloke out asap.

The army eventually caught on.
They dont write it off now although you can still be hoofed out owing cash, the MOD have some debt collection department.
 
There is a world of difference.

One gets you the X factor for instance.

Just remind me. What point or points are you trying to make?
That some officers are taking the piss, I would have thought that was obvious.
 
They, the children get a better standard of education because they are not moving; school, exam board, friends, even education systems as in the case of Scotland, every 18 months to two years. I had three cross border and one overseas posting whilst my children were at school, had they not been able to be at one school their education would have been totally compromised. There are no state boarding schools in Scotland, because whatever you say there needs to be a grandparent/relative nearby to deal with exeats and half terms.

You also totally forget the pull through value of CEA; no middle grade officer, 40ish,(the majority of ORs leaving point) two children 10ish, at least 15 years to serve, would contemplate staying on at the cost of his children's education. At that stage he/she is pensionable why would he/she stay. The Army has to show that there is a way to stay on that will also support the children.

Yes, the rules must be strict and be audited very robustly.
I made this point earlier. I didn't want to send my kids to board and they probably wouldn't like it.
I had passed the IPP, so banged out.

And guess what? now they are massively short of Majors and Lt Cols.
 
What was actually said:

1. Officers - Boarding School provided a better standard of education for their kids.

2. SNCO / WO - It provided continuity of education in their kids Secondary Education.


Which Danny liked. The 2nd option is what CEA is for, the first it isnt, that just a nice bonus.

There must be a big book of excuses that you lot must pass around among yourselves when defending CEA. Such as this example.

There are no state boarding schools in Scotland, because whatever you say there needs to be a grandparent/relative nearby to deal with exeats and half terms.

No mate, there does not need to be a grandparent or relative near by, that is yet just another bonus that you get but are not entitled to. There are literally 1000s of families (Civilian and as well as military), that either cant afford to be choosy or dont have relatives living close to a boarding school. How did all the pads that opted for Windsor school manage? How would a junior rank who could only afford a state boarding school manage?

These middle grade officers have the option of leaving and getting a job in civvie street that if they want to continue living in the same size house and still put their kids in boarding school would need earn around an extra 100k on top of their salary now. Lets not pretend the majority are going to be so lucky. The threat that they will all leave is an empty one, Im sure some might and some will get high paying jobs, the majority know they wont. The Army made 20000 people redundant a few years ago without breaking a sweat, dont think that 4000 bods across the entire armed forces are irreplaceable.


The Army need to show a way of having continuity at key points of a child education. Currently it open to people taking the piss.
I’m afraid you show a huge lack of understanding about how boarding schools work. Each term there is a half term and normally at least two compulsory exeats, where all the boarders go home and the day children do not attend. So yes, “mate” you do need grandparents or relatives near enough to cope with these periods. The alternative is that the school will arrange “foster care” over these periods and charge you for the privilege.

The big book of excuses that your fevered mind imagines is simply logical conclusions but in your “officers bad” rant is probably a step to far for you. Plus, and do keep up here, there really are no State Boarding Schools in the Scottish Education; system, really, nada.

Yes middle grade officers can leave and they do which if you read @KnightsofRowallan ’s post is why there is a great shortage of them, your plan would exacerbate this hugely.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
Yes middle grade officers can leave and they do which if you read @KnightsofRowallan ’s post is why there is a great shortage of them, your plan would exacerbate this hugely.
Which is the point that the children are in or starting secondary education.
 
Surely most of those type of postings would be Lt Col and above? I didn't see too many Majors in SHAPE. The rule was that Lieutenant Colonel's could wash the cups, but only full Colonel's could actually make the tea.
As a rule yes. There are a smattering of Majs across NATO appointments, most are SO1; there are some Maj/Lt Col DAs but most are OF5s, a handful of 1*s and a small number of 2*s
 
You also totally forget the pull through value of CEA; no middle grade officer, 40ish,(the majority of ORs leaving point) two children 10ish, at least 15 years to serve, would contemplate staying on at the cost of his children's education. At that stage he/she is pensionable why would he/she stay
Probably because a lot of them don't have the talent or ability to got a job at anywhere near the same salary in civilian life. The ones with talent who don't want to had for the stars tap out at the earliest pension points which used to be 18 years I believe, as Majors or Lieutenant Colonels.
 
Welch is not due to stand trial until next year, it sez 'ere
Outstanding. Give the Arrse Legal Squad enough time to get his defence/hang the Rodney case sorted.
 
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Euclid

War Hero
There was a Royal Navy scam back in the dim and distant down in the West Country somewhere. They were claiming full BSA but the children were only day pupils, parents pocketing the difference with the collusion of the school.
 
Probably because a lot of them don't have the talent or ability to got a job at anywhere near the same salary in civilian life. The ones with talent who don't want to had for the stars tap out at the earliest pension points which used to be 18 years I believe, as Majors or Lieutenant Colonels.
[/QUOTE]
Or the necessary courage to trust in their own abilities, sometimes it's just easy to go with the flow.
I was involved in early stages of Mike Nicholson's List group in Scotland (options for change era) and when it came to trying to help the married, kids 16 year stage Majors they were so deluded and full of their own self importance - they were quoting silly expected salaries to make up for the loss of the BSA element. Granted the Majors of the 90s were a wee bit different to their modern counterparts.
 

Euclid

War Hero
Outstanding. Give the Arrse Legal Squad to get his defence/hang the Rodney case sorted.
What it really needs is the moon howlers and tin foil hat wearing conspiracy loons from the Madeleine McCann threads to offer an opinion. They are capable of determining guilt without bothering with little things such as evidence.
 
There was a Royal Navy scam back in the dim and distant down in the West Country somewhere. They were claiming full BSA but the children were only day pupils, parents pocketing the difference with the collusion of the school.
Not at all surprised there were too many small prep schools chasing the cash, many have become flatted country second homes. Those that survived are poised on the precipice and no doubt will shortly be telling parents its endex for their little Tarquin's and Charlotte's.
 

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