Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

I think you'll find that it's in line with the Sentencing Guidelines. Plus that sentence for a Major who defrauded £13K or so means a good stretch target for a 2* owing around £50K up to the top end of the guideline at 18 months.
Bit of a Freudian slip? A Maj defraudes whereas a 2* might 'owe'? =-)
 
Will he get to keep his MBE, I wonder? Not sure how these things work.
The Honours and Awards Committee will look at public cases where an honour holder has demonstrated that they might be unsuitable to continue to hold the honour and will consider forfeiture. Cases can also be bought to their attention by members of the public who become aware of holders' improper behaviour. Details of how to do so are on the Government website.

His LS&GC will probably go as well.
Beaten to it by @Bubbles_Barker
 
Seems a precedent may have been set today

Worst defence ever in the history of military justice. Mid life crises are about blowing cash on strippers, cocaine and a huge motorcycle, not fúcking school fees.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Bit of a Freudian slip? A Maj defraudes whereas a 2* might 'owe'? =-)
Not really - one is in debt to the MOD having been found guilty and the other is highly likely to follow in his footsteps!
 
The sad thing is, these aren’t poor people or people struggling on low incomes, they are well paid individuals with expensive houses.

Contrast this with the abuse that benefit fraud by poor or poorly educated people is met with.
 
The sad thing is, these aren’t poor people or people struggling on low incomes, they are well paid individuals with expensive houses.

Contrast this with the abuse that benefit fraud by poor or poorly educated people is met with.

Obviously that's completely different for many reasons.

Plebs don't game the system, they steal.

The benefit system is dead easy to understand even by people with a poor education, thats not the same as a complex system (that clearly states you must live with the other half) when it applies to an highly educated senior officer who has been claiming the allowance for over a decade.

Plebs break the law for themselves, officers do it for their kids.

Etc etc
 
Maybe they should have a morning programme where they track down and name and shame CEA bandits like they do with benefit fraudsters.

Surveillance footage of soldiers on alpine skiing trips and in the mess, whilst their spouses are living in the shires at fetes or the golf club, all the while skimming dosh from the taxpayer to send the sprogs to a school to be brought up by someone else.
 
Maybe they should have a morning programme where they track down and name and shame CEA bandits like they do with benefit fraudsters.

Surveillance footage of soldiers on alpine skiing trips and in the mess, whilst their spouses are living in the shires at fetes or the golf club, all the while skimming dosh from the taxpayer to send the sprogs to a school to be brought up by someone else.
Not a bad idea, if totally unworkable, but it might just attract a better standard and morally correct better class of officer, unfortunately its their women that are the unknown factor.
 

QRK2

LE
Not a bad idea, if totally unworkable, but it might just attract a better standard and morally correct better class of officer, unfortunately its their women that are the unknown factor.

Now you're showing your vintage and you've missed the raft of social media posts from across the Army in International Women's day. ;-)
 
Now you're showing your vintage and you've missed the raft of social media posts from across the Army in International Women's day. ;-)
Same in the police. Lots of gubbins aimed at getting the ladies to apply for this and that. I'd prefer an International Everyone Just Gets On With The Bloody Job Day, but what do I know?
 
The article said that he retired in 2018 and is working at Bournemouth college, so he is already getting his pension. They won't be able to take it off him for a bit of CEA fraud. You have to commit treason or shag one of the Queens Corgis before they can even consider it.
yes he was an ex gloster.
 
He's a convicted fraudster, he's only free on licence, he has been booted out of the Army, his marriage has broken up, his kids will be hoicked out of their school . . . . . I wouldn't wish any more on him.

I suppose that the sentence gives some sort of clue as to what Nick might expect if he is found guilty.
The punishment of dismissal is no longer available for him, as he has already retired, Will the court substitute a longer suspended sentence, or will they substitute immediate custodial ?
The amount which he has allegedly obtained by fraud is about three times more than Hamilton nicked and don't sentencing guidelines allow for the amount to be a factor ?
Have to say I have a degree of sympathy for Hamilton. His kids were in boarding school because he was highly mobile. He was posted to Cyprus fully expecting his wife to travel with him. She didn’t. For the first six months, he expected her to come and was found not guilty. Second Sox months he knew she wasn’t coming yet still claimed and was found guilty.

In order to comply, his kids would have had to be removed from school mid year.
But where would they go? They could have come to Cyprus or they would have to have gone to a school near his UK home. All of this has to be done before the small matter of custody was settled. There’s an implied presumption in the rules that the non-serving spouse will assume custody.

Which leads to another issue; Hamilton gets custody, he’s entitled to CEA. She gets it, he’s not. All very messy and the one thing that is destroyed is the kids continuity of education. IMHO the rules are a mess around separation when the servicing spouse is overseas.

Very different situation to Welch.
 
Have to say I have a degree of sympathy for Hamilton. His kids were in boarding school because he was highly mobile. He was posted to Cyprus fully expecting his wife to travel with him. She didn’t. For the first six months, he expected her to come and was found not guilty. Second Sox months he knew she wasn’t coming yet still claimed and was found guilty.

In order to comply, his kids would have had to be removed from school mid year.
But where would they go? They could have come to Cyprus or they would have to have gone to a school near his UK home. All of this has to be done before the small matter of custody was settled. There’s an implied presumption in the rules that the non-serving spouse will assume custody.

Which leads to another issue; Hamilton gets custody, he’s entitled to CEA. She gets it, he’s not. All very messy and the one thing that is destroyed is the kids continuity of education. IMHO the rules are a mess around separation when the servicing spouse is overseas.

Very different situation to Welch.

In order to comply he could have got custody. There is no implied presumption at all, I known single parents both male and female to use CEA

Or just paid the fees himself.

He clearly didn't give a **** about what would happen to his kids if he got caught.

So **** him, he's a thief.

Stop making excuses for officer ******* who cant sort their ******* lives out.
 
In order to comply he could have got custody. There is no implied presumption at all, I known single parents both male and female to use CEA

Or just paid the fees himself.

He clearly didn't give a **** about what would happen to his kids if he got caught.

So **** him, he's a thief.

Stop making excuses for officer ******* who cant sort their ******* lives out.
I said I have a degree of sympathy; I didn’t try to justify his actions. I suspect the Court felt the same since he received only a short suspended sentence.

If you think it’s possible or reasonable to sort out custody in less than six months when you’re based in Cyprus and your wife, who doesn’t want a divorce isn’t cooperating, then you’re dumber than I thought.

And finally, he is not a thief. He’s been found guilty of fraud, which is not theft. If, in your illustrious service career, you ever kept buckshee equipment or passed it on to others, then you would likely be guilty of theft. Not that you ever did, did you
 
I said I have a degree of sympathy; I didn’t try to justify his actions. I suspect the Court felt the same since he received only a short suspended sentence.

If you think it’s possible or reasonable to sort out custody in less than six months when you’re based in Cyprus and your wife, who doesn’t want a divorce isn’t cooperating, then you’re dumber than I thought.

And finally, he is not a thief. He’s been found guilty of fraud, which is not theft. If, in your illustrious service career, you ever kept buckshee equipment or passed it on to others, then you would likely be guilty of theft. Not that you ever did, did you
Fraud, or False Representation as it is called these days is all part of the theft act. According to the DM article his wife was a manager at IBM so must have been on a good salary. I wonder if they would still have been able to afford the school fees, even taking into account any maintainance that he had to pay.

Was he commissioned via the Clerk of Works route or whatever they call it now?
 
And finally, he is not a thief. He’s been found guilty of fraud, which is not theft. If, in your illustrious service career, you ever kept buckshee equipment or passed it on to others, then you would likely be guilty of theft. Not that you ever did, did you
I suppose whoever marched him in for the hearing would have been a Fraud Escort.

I'm here all week, etc.
 
Fraud, or False Representation as it is called these days is all part of the theft act. According to the DM article his wife was a manager at IBM so must have been on a good salary. I wonder if they would still have been able to afford the school fees, even taking into account any maintainance that he had to pay.

Was he commissioned via the Clerk of Works route or whatever they call it now?
Nope. The Fraud Act 2006 repealed the sections of the 1968 Theft Act that covered fraud, including false representation. There’s a fundamental difference between fraud and theft; in fraud, the goods or services have to be consensually given by the victim because the victim has been deceived. In theft there is no consent.

Personally, I don’t see what the wife’s financial situation has to do with it. She was not the one posted to Cyprus. As I said, I have sympathy for him.

Yes, he is a Garrison Engineer.
 

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