Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

@stacker1 I'm sure, you, like many have benefitted from the full £25 of Daily Subsistence, when a £3 meal deal would have equally done the trick...
 

lextalionis

Old-Salt
A brand new school would cost in the range of 15 to 30 million depending on size and location


Probably any extra 10 mil each for the accommodation.

Im not sure why they need 5 to 7 locations, theoretically you can have them all in the same place, they are there to be educated, no other reason.
But lets say 6 schools at 30 mil each, so an initial cost of 180 million plus running costs for every year afterwards.
How much is CEA costing a year? 80 million? It wouldnt take long for the costs to be recouped.

Of course certain people wont be using taxpayers money to part subsidise their children at "posh" schools so probably wont get looked at.
It does seem like an obvious solution, when you think about it. The local state grammar school here charges £12k for boarding alone. If the state paid the going rate (£5k-£6k) for teaching and the MoD picked up the tab for boarding (or at least most of it), it could probably halve the per capita cost.

I'm sure there'd be political support for such a move.
 

Euclid

War Hero
Shes a bit of a unit, If Jim30 was here, he would be telling us all its down to the camera angles.

This did make me smile
A court martial heard there was a loud thud when 'aggressive' Sgt Cook headbutted Gunner Jermaine Gemmoth - while keeping her drink in her hand.

Classy
Here is the court reporter’s sketch of the moment leading up to the assault.
EB292CF5-E8B5-445E-86D1-454CCA200873.jpeg
 
I'm not sure of your argument here? As I've previously stated, its personal choice how to spend money.

If the CEA was capped at an even lower rate, to equate to SBS rates, we'd have to dig deeper...and for note, CEA as a percentage of overall school fees is now vastly reduced by the manner in which it is calculated - which is 75% of fees from 75% of schools attended. The FCO use a similar metric which is why their rate is considerably higher - they wouldn't consider sending their offspring to Dukies, QVS etc.

Due to hyperinflation of school fees (eg, Eton has more than doubled in 20yrs), most ppl (including senior officers) are well and truly priced out of the market. There are numerous FOIs to give you MOD numbers at Eton, Harrow etc which are in single digits and invariably from very senior ppl with senior working spouses.
My point is that a state boarding school is good enough for the plebs, it can be good enough for officers kids.
Does anyone say that LCpl Bloggs would be financially in the shit if he has to put his two kids in boarding school (if it wasnt a state boarding school)? Or does nobody care because he can either drag his kids around with him or stick them in a state boarding school?


You might dig deeper now, but you would have been unlikely to have done as a captain/major if you had kids of boarding age, and if you do dig deeper good for you, its not the taxpayer funding so much any more.

Assuming that CEA was approx 20k in 2016. Eton had about 13 CEA pupils.


I notice this bit
The total cost to the department for providing CEA during 2016 was £81M; £68M for Service personnel assigned to the UK and £13M for those assigned overseas.

I would have thought it would those overseas that have the higher figure.

I also I notice that unless a lot of pad brats have suddenly started going to boarding school, the claim of 8000 earlier might have been a tadge inflated.

The number of children who benefited from the CEA during 2016 was 5,200. However, for the reasons given for your first question, in academic year 15/16, 4,490 Service children benefitted from the allowance and in academic year 16/17 the number is 4,330.

I reckon its even less 4 years later.

Maybe some scope for more use of state boarding schools after all.
 
@stacker1 I'm sure, you, like many have benefitted from the full £25 of Daily Subsistence, when a £3 meal deal would have equally done the trick...
Well if that allowance was cut I doubt the officers would make a fuss, they didnt say much about it when it happened to IE, Ren leave, rail cards etc, but weirdly enough, they tool up and come out milling when CEA is criticized.
 
Most of this just snark, driven by CEA being seen as an officers sport and all the associated and boring inverse snobbery that comes with it.
Quite a nasty bit of snobbery there, remember when you are on the back foot use whatever vindictive tool you have in your lexicon to put the plebs down and keep them down.

(By the way I am not one of your 'plebs')
 
It does seem like an obvious solution, when you think about it. The local state grammar school here charges £12k for boarding alone. If the state paid the going rate (£5k-£6k) for teaching and the MoD picked up the tab for boarding (or at least most of it), it could probably halve the per capita cost.

I'm sure there'd be political support for such a move.
@stacker1 that's an interesting link and I like the idea. Land costs are the biggest variable.

But lets take the baseline as £20M for a school its self. Whats going to really ramp it up is the accommodation.
You were looking at £3.5m for a 60 Bed boarding house a couple of years back.
So lets go with another £25M getting us a 400 bed boarding house. It will be very pretty basic, 2 person rooms, cheapest furniture etc.
Now running costs are interesting. The biggest being staff, so lets we bump up the class sizes to nearer state level to offset. (Interestingly, state teachers cost more than independents in salary terms).
Add catering, H&L, pastoral, housekeeping & laundry and its going to be at least £15k pa cost per child.
I've been pretty generous/optimistic here, it will probably cost more.

The quicker option would be to purchase existing schools. The lift in teacher pension contributions is squeezing them and if the govt removed charity status and or added VAT, you could probably scoop some up reduced price and simply expand them.
 
@twentyfirstoffoot sorry, not my intent. There were a few comments made early in the thread that were quite gleeful that it was a senior officer and probably wouldn't have been made if it was an NCO, et al.
There have been quite a few threads/posts about CEA/BSA on here and that is a re-current theme.

If the man has done wrong, then the court will hopefully find accordingly and he should face the full weight of the law/punishment. As previously stated people tearing the arse out of it ruin it for all.

And apologies to @stacker1 ; I thought you were making the case to abandon it completely. However you also make a really good point above, indeed what about REN leave, railcards, etc? You are probably right that CEA hits closer to home with senior management and they should have done more to defend those benefits.

Its death by a thousand cuts. I've now worked for a number of companies that are far far better at looking after their people than the MoD/Army does now. How depressing.
 
@twentyfirstoffoot sorry, not my intent. There were a few comments made early in the thread that were quite gleeful that it was a senior officer and probably wouldn't have been made if it was an NCO, et al.
There have been quite a few threads/posts about CEA/BSA on here and that is a re-current theme.

If the man has done wrong, then the court will hopefully find accordingly and he should face the full weight of the law/punishment. As previously stated people tearing the arse out of it ruin it for all.
Wasn't fishing for an apology and I agree with this view.

My opinion is the system needs a root and branch reform. Soldiers and officers do not need to be moved every two years or less, if anything this makes them unskilled.

With the move to a UK based Army officers careers should be based on a parent 1* HQ. very little justification for moving a south of England based person from say Aldershot to Edinburgh just to satisfy a whim at Kentigern House.

For example anyone based in south central England can daily commute around Salisbury Plain, Aldershot, Portsmouth, Bicester and Central London. Taking Tidworth as the center of your universe all Regimental and Staff appointments are available from 2Lt to 3* and this includes some of those 'punchy technical projects'.

Result, ilve in one MQ wife has full time continuity of career and kids go to parental school of choice and pay if that is their choice.
 
Wasn't fishing for an apology and I agree with this view.

My opinion is the system needs a root and branch reform. Soldiers and officers do not need to be moved every two years or less, if anything this makes them unskilled.

With the move to a UK based Army officers careers should be based on a parent 1* HQ. very little justification for moving a south of England based person from say Aldershot to Edinburgh just to satisfy a whim at Kentigern House.

For example anyone based in south central England can daily commute around Salisbury Plain, Aldershot, Portsmouth, Bicester and Central London. Taking Tidworth as the center of your universe all Regimental and Staff appointments are available from 2Lt to 3* and this includes some of those 'punchy technical projects'.


Result, ilve in one MQ wife has full time continuity of career and kids go to parental school of choice and pay if that is their choice.
The parent 1* HQ idea doesn't work for the majority of officers.

I've had a reasonably standard career and never been near any of those places you mention. I've spent half my time overseas and, as I posted earlier, have not lived near a 'garrison' for the past 10 years. I'm expecting to move overseas again in the next year.

I was chatting to a guy who was a Lt Col in the Spanish Army. He was staggered at the way we do business. However, he'd been in the same department since 2004 as a major and latterly Lt Col....he was 50 something shadow of a man and just going through the motion until he retires in a few years. That is an alternative model.
 
The parent 1* HQ idea doesn't work for the majority of officers.

I've had a reasonably standard career and never been near any of those places you mention. I've spent half my time overseas and, as I posted earlier, have not lived near a 'garrison' for the past 10 years. I'm expecting to move overseas again in the next year.

I was chatting to a guy who was a Lt Col in the Spanish Army. He was staggered at the way we do business. However, he'd been in the same department since 2004 as a major and latterly Lt Col....he was 50 something shadow of a man and just going through the motion until he retires in a few years. That is an alternative model.
Sounds a bit like the RAF... :-D
 
It was one of those Victorian bastions for sons of Army/Navy and Colonial chaps on the edge of a main railway and ferry route.
of course, no provision was made if you didn't have a dad on the edge of a main railway and ferry route...
 
For example anyone based in south central England can daily commute around Salisbury Plain, Aldershot, Portsmouth, Bicester and Central London. Taking Tidworth as the center of your universe all Regimental and Staff appointments are available from 2Lt to 3* and this includes some of those 'punchy technical projects'.
Would work with hub to spoke (just about) - though I wouldn't fancy daily commutes of Tidworth- Central London or Tidworth - Bicester. Tidworth-Portsmouth could be a bit gritty too.

spoke to spoke would be painful though - living near Bicester, Central London would be eminently doable, but the idea of daily commuting to anywhere else on the list would be about as sustainable as a not very sustainable thing.

That and the exciting opportunities to get the A34 on your death certificate.
 
As I have mentioned before on another thread. That happened to a former DC on Brent in the Met. He was in charge of the 'Missing Persons' unit and had been shagging patients in the mental health ward of the local hospital in Harlesden. One of them made an allegation of rape against him.

He had 28 years service. Only 2 to go for the full 30. After he was found guilty at he discipline tribunal he was dismissed without notice and given back his contributions which amounted to £50,000. No body liked him anyway as he was an obnoxious dodgy git.

I think there was a case in the early nineties where a former police Inspector who had been dismissed and lost his pension took the government to the ECHR and the judgement was in his favour, with the ruling being that pensions can only be forfeited in cases of gross misconduct and even then the empolyees contribution must be refunded.
AIUI, even in these circumstances, they can only go as far back as when you began the criminal activity of which you have been convicted. Up to that point your are assumed to have been innocent and are therefore entitled to the benefits accrued within your Ts&Cs.
 
Excuse my ignorance In such matters, but I have 2 questions,
1. If he retired in 2018 why is he facing a military court martial?
2. Isn’t it too late to bring charges if he is no longer serving?
No! As an ex-soldier you are still subject to military law up to the age of 55 and as an officer up to the age of 60, if you still have a reserve liability, which is practically everyone except med discharges.

This:

Armed Forces ACT 2006, Section 57.

Time limit for charging person formerly subject to service law

(1)This section applies where a person ceases to be subject to service law.

(2)The person may not, after the end of six months beginning with the date he ceased to be subject to service law, be charged with a service offence committed while he was so subject.

(3)Subsection (2) applies even if the person (again) becomes subject to service law within those six months.

(4)Subsection (2) does not apply in relation to an offence committed by a person when he was—
(a)a member of a volunteer reserve force; or
(b)a member of an ex-regular reserve force who was subject to an additional duties commitment.


Could be an interesting argument.
 
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Would work with hub to spoke (just about) - though I wouldn't fancy daily commutes of Tidworth- Central London or Tidworth - Bicester. Tidworth-Portsmouth could be a bit gritty too.

spoke to spoke would be painful though - living near Bicester, Central London would be eminently doable, but the idea of daily commuting to anywhere else on the list would be about as sustainable as a not very sustainable thing.

That and the exciting opportunities to get the A34 on your death certificate.
As a mere STAB on the Staff, I have daily commuted to Tidworth, Larkhill, Andover and Innsworth from my home in Swindon. I have done it to Aldershot too, although a room in Odiham is preferable if available. Until COVID-19 reared its ugly head, commuting for much of the workforce was the norm and the Armed Forces were very much the exception.
 
AIUI, even in these circumstances, they can only go as far back as when you began the criminal activity of which you have been convicted. Up to that point your are assumed to have been innocent and are therefore entitled to the benefits accrued within your Ts&Cs.
Harold Shipman's widow still receives his NHS Pension...
 
As a mere STAB on the Staff, I have daily commuted to Tidworth, Larkhill, Andover and Innsworth from my home in Swindon. I have done it to Aldershot too, although a room in Odiham is preferable if available. Until COVID-19 reared its ugly head, commuting for much of the workforce was the norm and the Armed Forces were very much the exception.
true - I've been doing 100 miles a day for the last 10 years, but very much on my terms and over a route that made that doable. I wouldn't fancy the spoke model that can see the commute change every 18 months to two years.
 
Would work with hub to spoke (just about) - though I wouldn't fancy daily commutes of Tidworth- Central London or Tidworth - Bicester. Tidworth-Portsmouth could be a bit gritty too.
I thought we were all meant to be big and tough in the Army? Those commutes are done daily by hundreds of thoudands of people, without financial assistance or CEA. Living on the patch certainly seems to make some people go all snowflake.
 

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