Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

Depends on the scheme? Many cases of RAPC (and all other Regt and Corps) SSgt/WO2's getting caught with their hand in the till, getting found guilty and dismissed from service and losing their pension. I think there was a few MMA cases involving Sn Officers...........eeey, but that were back in'th day.

Things may have changed.
Oviously they wouldn't get the lump sum and immediate pension after 22 years service, but they would still be entitled to their preserved pension at 60. There was a case of an IRA man who was sent down for planting bombs in Rubbish bins in train and bus stations in the Nineties. Went to prison and did his time. When he was 60 he claimed a preserved pension for the time he had served in the Royal Signals.

Another more recent case is the Jock Sapper who bombed his old barracks in Osnabruck.

IRA bomber claims pension.

A friend who was a SNCO in the RAPC in the eighties when Worthy Down was their Depot told me that they had a thriving chapter of their Old Comrades association in HMP Winchester.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
Vaguely recall about 20 years ago a law was passed protecting pensions. It isn't the army's to steal, leave a man old, unemployable, penniless and without hope.

Or a meringue?
I think they can remove the taxpayer contribution part and leave you with what you have paid in.
 
I think they can remove the taxpayer contribution part and leave you with what you have paid in.
As I have mentioned before on another thread. That happened to a former DC on Brent in the Met. He was in charge of the 'Missing Persons' unit and had been shagging patients in the mental health ward of the local hospital in Harlesden. One of them made an allegation of rape against him.

He had 28 years service. Only 2 to go for the full 30. After he was found guilty at he discipline tribunal he was dismissed without notice and given back his contributions which amounted to £50,000. No body liked him anyway as he was an obnoxious dodgy git.

I think there was a case in the early nineties where a former police Inspector who had been dismissed and lost his pension took the government to the ECHR and the judgement was in his favour, with the ruling being that pensions can only be forfeited in cases of gross misconduct and even then the empolyees contribution must be refunded.
 
What could happen is that a man might be chucked out at, say the 20 year point, and therefore not be entitled to an immediate (22 year) pension. However, the preserved pension, payable at age 60 would not be forfeit. The only exception that I knew of in my time was the corporal at Glencorse who murdered a paymaster and sergeant with a Sterling.
Where did you see that Andrew Walker lost his pension?
 
The pension implications of (court martial) sentencing are set out in this:

Applies to almost no one

As a general rule, pension entitlements once earned may not be forfeited and the court has no power to sanction forfeiture. However, all Pension Schemes do provide for exceptional circumstances where the Secretary of State may order forfeiture. Such an order may be made where, for example, the Service person is convicted of treason, Official Secrets Acts offences where the sentence is at least 10 years’ imprisonment, and other offences which the Secretary of State considers to have been injurious to the defence, security or other interests of the State (e.g. assisting the enemy, mutiny, desertion in war and grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions)
 
The article said that he retired in 2018 and is working at Bournemouth college, so he is already getting his pension. They won't be able to take it off him for a bit of CEA fraud. You have to commit treason or shag one of the Queens Corgis before they can even consider it.
Excuse my ignorance In such matters, but I have 2 questions,
1. If he retired in 2018 why is he facing a military court martial?
2. Isn’t it too late to bring charges if he is no longer serving?
 
Excuse my ignorance In such matters, but I have 2 questions,
1. If he retired in 2018 why is he facing a military court martial?
2. Isn’t it too late to bring charges if he is no longer serving?
He can still be charged and dealt with under military law for any offences alleged to have occurred whilst he was serving.
 
But as a civvy, can he not just ignore any notice requiring him to go before a Courts Martial?
That was my thoughts, surely once you leave the forces you are no longer subject to military law even if you committed an offence during your service, isn’t he entitled to be tried by a civilian court and the MOD would be required to submit any evidence to the CPS? I don’t know about such matters having never come across it in my time or since. But I’d be interested to see the legalities of it.
 

Bodenplatte

War Hero
Where did you see that Andrew Walker lost his pension?
It used to be the case, probably still is, that when a soldier is summoned before a civilian court he is accompanied by an officer. It is this officers duty to answer any question the bench may ask him, and also provide a character assessment and advise the bench of any service consequences of a custodial sentence.
Usually you bigged him up, and also gave the worst possible case when it came to consequences. Amongst this was a dismal explanation of the possible loss of pension.
Now, that very rarely happened. Somebody, Magistrates Association maybe, got wind of this truth and so there was an instruction put out late 80s, that accompanying officers must not quote pension loss in court. When this instruction was promulgated we were informed that the only person since WW2 to forfeit pension was this murderer.
 
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It used to be the case, probably still is, that when a soldier is summoned before a civilian court he is accompanied by an officer. It is this officers duty to answer any question the bench may ask him, and also provide a charter assessment and advise the bench of any service consequences of a custodial sentence.
Usually you bogged him up, and also gave the worst possible case when it came to consequences. Amongst this was a dismal explanation of the possible loss of pension.
Now, that very rarely happened. Somebody, Magistrates Association maybe, got wind of this truth and so there was an instruction put out late 80s, that accompanying officers must not quote pension loss in court. When this instruction was promulgated we were informed that the only person since WW2 to forfeit pension was this murderer.
As I said earlier it could have been the case of losing their immediate pension.

I doubt very much civvie courts have the power to take away a military pension.

It might be true that this bloke lost his pension, but its unlikely.
 
Another more recent case is the Jock Sapper who bombed his old barracks in Osnabruck.
Did he get caught because he couldn’t stop bragging about it?
 

Rod924

LE
Kit Reviewer
When was this? I dont think anyone has lost their pension in the last 30 years.
What sometimes happens is that they get binned before their immediate pension point, but thats the same as anyone else leaving at that time for any reason.
1985 was the SSgt, held at Trigantel Fort. 1991 was the MMA, Colonel. Long time ago now.
 
But as a civvy, can he not just ignore any notice requiring him to go before a Courts Martial?
The Court Martial has the requisite power to try ex service persons as it see fit for offences committed whilst subject to Service Law...

From GUIDANCE ON SENTENCING IN THE COURT MARTIAL by the JAG linked to a few posts ago...


4.2.1 An Ex-Serviceman may be tried in the Court Martial and sentenced for offences committed while he was serving, provided:
i. he is charged within six months of leaving the Service [s 55];
ii. he is not subject to service law;
iii. he is not a member of a volunteer reserve force;
iv. he is not subject to a reserve additional duties commitment [s 56]; and
v. he is not a civilian offender.

4.2.2 An ex-Serviceman can be tried even having been charged outside this six month time limit but only with the consent of the Attorney General [s 61(2)]. The power is wide but it is unlikely to be exercised unless the offences alleged are serious.

4.2.3 The Court Martial has the power to impose all of the sentences available for a Serviceman of the relevant rank with the exception of forfeiture of seniority, a service supervision and punishment order, and any minor punishments. It may award an absolute discharge41 but not a conditional discharge. It may impose dismissal or dismissal with disgrace, meaning that the previous discharge, retirement or resignation is converted into a dismissal from the Service, but only upon an officer or a member of the reserve forces [Sch 3 para 3(1) – Table rows 2 & 3].
4.3 Sentencing All Civilians including Ex-Servicemen:
 
^wot he said.
The Service Prosecuting Authority may go ahead with a prosecution if it is in the public interest, and the service interest.
The Attorney General normally consents.
The most common of these cases are sexual offences committed under the jurisdiction of the military authorities.
 

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