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Interesting court martial on the horizon, General in the dock.

AIUI, there was severe pressure on the Training Staff to keep the numbers coming out of Phase 1 Training up. The Units needed manpower due to a high number of sign offs and the MOD had already invested a lot of cash getting the recruits that far. I knew a few of the DS at ATC Pirbright (sausage factory) and they were always talking about the difficulty of getting someone binned.

Which was the complete opposite of.

Training Cpl - Would you have this recruit in your Section ?

Training Sgt - Would you have this recruit in your Pl ?

Pl Comd - Would you have this recruit in your Pl ?

2 no's and you were binned.
 

Alamo

LE
Which was the complete opposite of.

Training Cpl - Would you have this recruit in your Section ?

Training Sgt - Would you have this recruit in your Pl ?

Pl Comd - Would you have this recruit in your Pl ?

2 no's and you were binned.
Which is fine as far as it goes, but when they can’t articulate why? and it’s nothing more than they don’t like him, is that a good enough reason to deny him of his livelihood and the Army of its investment?
 
We should let this thread continue to meander, if only to see how long it takes before it absorbs, like a black hole, the rest of ARRSE. Most Gorgeous Brunette and Fit Birds in Uniform might be the last hold-outs.
 
Which is fine as far as it goes, but when they can’t articulate why? and it’s nothing more than they don’t like him, is that a good enough reason to deny him of his livelihood and the Army of its investment?

Not up to the standard required and say what standards hes not reaching.

For the army, they should keep the individual in phase one until they improve or bin them, rather than sending them on to a unit to deal with.
 
We should let this thread continue to meander, if only to see how long it takes before it absorbs, like a black hole, the rest of ARRSE. Most Gorgeous Brunette and Fit Birds in Uniform might be the last hold-outs.

As I said before, its only takes while before another officer makes a **** of himself and its back on track.
 

Wee Hawken

Old-Salt
Why let mutants through training, who couldn't spell soldier, never mind be one, just because the Army invested money in recruiting and training.
In my platoon I had a Rfn who could barely read or write at all. In NI, his attempts to fill in a C1 at a VCP were frankly risible. Nevertheless he performed well enough on ops to get an MiD so there is potential everywhere and luckily he had the chance to prove it.

In retrospect I would think that he was probably massively dyslexic and had been massively failed by the education system, but that's another story.
 

Alamo

LE
Who said they couldn't articulate why ?



Yes.

Why let mutants through training, who couldn't spell soldier, never mind be one, just because the Army invested money in recruiting and training.
Read what I said, not what you think I said, or what you wanted me to say to reinforce your point. If they can articulate ‘why?’ then there isn’t an issue is there?


Not up to the standard required and say what standards hes not reaching.

For the army, they should keep the individual in phase one until they improve or bin them, rather than sending them on to a unit to deal with.
Quite.
 

Erinon

Old-Salt
While at a training battalion (circa late 80's) we received some criticism from the units on the quality of new recruits being delivered. This resulted in the platoon staff on the next intake being given much latitude in binning recruits, which then produced a pair of passing out two platoons of about 15 bodies down from the intake of 30 odd each.

The consequences of which was a directive that more recruits must be passed out. An intake later after numerous space cadets had been kicked off into the holding pen (awaiting discharge, SNLR etc or for medical), a platoon was formed of these misfits and subsequently passed out....
 
We should let this thread continue to meander, if only to see how long it takes before it absorbs, like a black hole, the rest of ARRSE. Most Gorgeous Brunette and Fit Birds in Uniform might be the last hold-outs.

If Scaly Alberto's attempts make an appearance I'm nuking this thread from orbit.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
Given the amount of time, costs, people involved and the resulting bad press , would it not have been easier, to call some of these characters in for a meeting without coffee, and perhaps with some senior officers present, to then explain to the person concerned the error of their ways, and how they were going to re imburse the missing money, possibly taken from pay each month, with a little interest added for good measure ?
word would soon get around, others would realise that its better to be honest, and you do not have to lose a member of the Corp who has been trained at some considerable expense
of course everybody down to the cleaners will find out as the gossip monger spread it
but it may be a better and more efficient way of dealing with it, within reason

many many years ago I worked for a large company that was losing money, in spite of pretty full order books
questions were asked , people pulled in , and the cadre involved were soon in for a very worrying meeting, two members of the firm left promptly, for failing to disclose their invovlment or report the fraud , the major perpetrator kept his job, although we all knew about his scam , I questioned the Company owner ( a pretty clever fella), he said if I get rid of X he will merely go elsewhere and start up again, plus bad mouth my company, and we also lose the money, so I have retained him on little more than carefully checked expenses, and his wages will be deducted to repay the fraud, this will keep the firms name out of the press, and he must work harder to earn more money, and repay the debt
but if he leaves our employment, he will have to take out a very substantial bank loan or pass the deeds to his house over
X stayed for many years, but his lifestyle was severly curtailed, and all of his hangers on soon dispersed when the cash was not being flashed
I heard later ( having moved on) that the money was nearly all paid back when he retired, that must have hurt
 
Given the amount of time, costs, people involved and the resulting bad press , would it not have been easier, to call some of these characters in for a meeting without coffee, and perhaps with some senior officers present, to then explain to the person concerned the error of their ways, and how they were going to re imburse the missing money, possibly taken from pay each month, with a little interest added for good measure ?

Good heavens

Surely you cannot be advocating that Senior Officers should invent ways of covering up fraud of Public funds ?
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
Good heavens

Surely you cannot be advocating that Senior Officers should invent ways of covering up fraud of Public funds ?
It would of course be on record, perhaps an unexplained error or a mistake, but if the fellow concerned was a complete chod, then simply raise the bar for repayment, he will soon find work elsewhere
or even develip a C.M. that is slimmed down, with trained accountants, and a set of vlaues to be in place for the summing up
get it done get it over and move on
It works in Industry, and with the defence cuts, time is money
 
It would of course be on record, perhaps an unexplained error or a mistake, but if the fellow concerned was a complete chod, then simply raise the bar for repayment, he will soon find work elsewhere

Right - Got you

1. Covering up fraud

2. Fraud as unexplained errors or mistakes

3. Different rules for different fools.

What a mighty hole you are digging
 

QRK2

LE
Given the amount of time, costs, people involved and the resulting bad press , would it not have been easier, to call some of these characters in for a meeting without coffee, and perhaps with some senior officers present, to then explain to the person concerned the error of their ways, and how they were going to re imburse the missing money, possibly taken from pay each month, with a little interest added for good measure ?
word would soon get around, others would realise that its better to be honest, and you do not have to lose a member of the Corp who has been trained at some considerable expense
of course everybody down to the cleaners will find out as the gossip monger spread it
but it may be a better and more efficient way of dealing with it, within reason

many many years ago I worked for a large company that was losing money, in spite of pretty full order books
questions were asked , people pulled in , and the cadre involved were soon in for a very worrying meeting, two members of the firm left promptly, for failing to disclose their invovlment or report the fraud , the major perpetrator kept his job, although we all knew about his scam , I questioned the Company owner ( a pretty clever fella), he said if I get rid of X he will merely go elsewhere and start up again, plus bad mouth my company, and we also lose the money, so I have retained him on little more than carefully checked expenses, and his wages will be deducted to repay the fraud, this will keep the firms name out of the press, and he must work harder to earn more money, and repay the debt
but if he leaves our employment, he will have to take out a very substantial bank loan or pass the deeds to his house over
X stayed for many years, but his lifestyle was severly curtailed, and all of his hangers on soon dispersed when the cash was not being flashed
I heard later ( having moved on) that the money was nearly all paid back when he retired, that must have hurt

A fundamental difference here is that CEA etc is public money, in your example the person whose money had been robbed was able to make the call. That's not really an option with public funds. There is also FWIW the integrity issue.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
Right - Got you

1. Covering up fraud

2. Fraud as unexplained errors or mistakes

3. Different rules for different fools.

What a mighty hole you are digging
Oh I am not after digging a hole, just asking why the system could not be modernised or made more efficient, these C.M.s seems to drag on for some time, what do the Civil Service do when they discover financial irregularities ?
 
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