Interesting cast bullets

#1
Thought you lot might find this amusing:



Lee 314-90-SWC, cast in 5:1 roofing lead:loose printing type (should reproduce wheelweights); sized .314". lubed with Lee Liquid Alox.

Powered by a CCI Large Rifle primer and a gnat's fart of Vectan Ba10 (French Bullseye equivalent). test loads are 3.0, 3.2 & 3.4gns.

I'll test them tonight & see how they go.

I've also loaded some up some 312-160-2R (CE Harris's 7.62x39 bullet with the tumble-lube grooves) as cast, with 6-7gns of Ba10, which I'll also test tonight.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
Are they for breaking through glass or something?
 
#4
You think they'll penetrate double-glazing? :shock:
 
#5
EX_STAB said:
Biped said:
Are they for breaking through glass or something?
Indoor range training round with pistol calibre ballistics I would suggest.
Indeedy. Given that they cost about 6 eurocents in consumables each to make, and the cases should more or less go on for ever, they should make good training fodder at 50m, or 100m if I'm lucky.

The 160 grainers will certainly do OK at 100m. And they'll cost me around a cent each to cast!
 
#7
Am fully expecting to feel range-fit by the evening. Can't concentrate on work when every time I swallow I get a jabbing pain that robs me of all concentration. My "clients" don't like it one bit! Plus, I've got to get out the bloody house! Been like this since Sunday am...

ref. the 90gn semiwads, annoyingly the seating die punch deforms the front of the bullets slightly. might order a .32S&W long seating punch with my next Lee order & see if that fits in the 303 die.
 
#8
stoatman said:
Am fully expecting to feel range-fit by the evening. Can't concentrate on work when every time I swallow I get a jabbing pain that robs me of all concentration. My "clients" don't like it one bit! Plus, I've got to get out the bloody house! Been like this since Sunday am...

ref. the 90gn semiwads, annoyingly the seating die punch deforms the front of the bullets slightly. might order a .32S&W long seating punch with my next Lee order & see if that fits in the 303 die.
Don't worry about slight deformation of the nose, I get that with my Lee 38 wadcutters, absolutely no loss of accuracy. Deformation of the base is a completely different matter.
 
#9
It's actually the shoulder that's made slightly conical rather than the truncated-cone portion. Seems to be done evenly though.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#10
Slighty off topic, but you guys are the ones who maybe have the answers.

I have just aquired a mint .577 Snider Enfield 3 band and am now trying to get together the reloading material to get the girl running.
Trying to find someone in Europe who offers a mould or bullets in .590, any clues? Any experts/dealers in Europe?
Dies are coming from the US (CH 4D), brass handmade from Buffalo in the US.
Gonna have fun converting the thin (or the large amount of eccentric) reloading data I have into Vectan too.....
 
#11
Alsacien said:
Slighty off topic, but you guys are the ones who maybe have the answers.

I have just aquired a mint .577 Snider Enfield 3 band and am now trying to get together the reloading material to get the girl running.
Trying to find someone in Europe who offers a mould or bullets in .590, any clues? Any experts/dealers in Europe?
Dies are coming from the US (CH 4D), brass handmade from Buffalo in the US.
Gonna have fun converting the thin (or the large amount of eccentric) reloading data I have into Vectan too.....

NO NO NO NO NO! :omfg:

Black powder only in black powder weapons. - Never use nitro!

(Black powder substitute such as pyrodex is ok,)

70 grains of fg blackpowder seems to be a popular loading to replicate the original.

I'd start a new thread if I were you.
 
#12
Have to agree with ES - no way do you want to put Nitro in a Snider.... Pyrodex if you must, but DO NOT use smokeless.... (unless you want your head fitted with a flip up breech block..)

Don't get fooled by articles in the US press about using nitro in BP carts...

1. They are usually talking about .45/70 which OK is a BP cart, but most .45/70 are strong enought to take nitro loads. (Most Sniders have wrought iron barrels - only the Mk 3 is steel)

2. The septics keep blowing their heads off.

RCBS do a .590 minie mould on special order - Jim Goodwin (NDFS) got them to make up a load and they still list them. I also use a base plug made from body filler to get them to expand reliably

PM me of you want some to try...

.. also give Pete Starley a bell - I think he had some NDFS .577S cases in the shop the last time I looked. (He may have some moulds as well :wink: -)

http://www.black-powder.co.uk/
 
#13
A gnat's fart load with Unique (Vectgan Ba9 equivalent) should generate far LOWER pressures in 577 Snider than a casefull of BP.

I would steer clear of anything slower than Ba9, since then the velocities & pressures would mount.

Can you publish, just for info, what data you already have?
 
#15
OK, Results!



All at 50m, prone, rested, iron sights, with the No.4.

Top: 90gn 314 SWC, Ba10: 3.0, 3.3, 3.6
Bottom: 160gn 312 2R, Ba10: 6.0, 6.3, 6.6, 6.9

"Best" groups: 90gn / 3.3 Ba10 - 5 MOA centre-to-centre 100%;
160gn / 6.3 Ba10 - 3.6 MOA 100%; 2.5 MOA 90%; 2.5 MOA 80%; 2.1 MOA 70%

Interesting group: 160gn w 6.6gn Ba10: 1.3MOA wide, 4.4 MOA high 100%; 2.8 MOA high 90%; 2.4MOA 80%.

Given that I am tired and ill and shot these at a fair old pace, I am quite happy with the 160gn bullets & 6.3 & 6.6 gn Ba10 groups.

I shot the groups at 50 and not 100 because I really didn't know how it would go and I wanted some results at all, and once I'd started at 50 I had to finish them all there to directly compare the results.

Other interesting points from someone shooting gnat's fart loads for the 1st time:

- The 90gn 3.0Ba10 load was as quiet as an airgun, and I swear I could see the bullet go downrange. There was almost no recoil at all, which was very very odd.

- There's lots of black filth in the bore, but no perceptible leading.

- Burnt Alox smells nasty

- No real difference in POI between the various loads at 50m

- 6 o'clock hold on these targets at 50 needs the sight set to 700yds; same hold at 100 (I had 5 left over to test) needs 800yds on the slide.
 
#16
Have you considered replicating the .310 cadet load in terms of bullet weight and velocity? Strikesme that it could be worth looking at. I think the whole idea is of merit particularly for training new shooters in view of the high prices of ammunition at present.
 
#17
EX_STAB said:
Have you considered replicating the .310 cadet load in terms of bullet weight and velocity? Strikesme that it could be worth looking at. I think the whole idea is of merit particularly for training new shooters in view of the high prices of ammunition at present.
Surely the 160gn load does almost that? It's heavier & perhaps a smidgin slower, sure, but does the same job. Short of sourcing a 312-314 sized 120gn mould (and why would you when the Lee TL312-160-2R is $35 for a double cavity), I don't see what the advantage is.

The definitive article on cast loads for mil rifles is here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425

These are the easy-to-source and cheap moulds in the right diameters (terminology is diameter-weight-shape):

pistol-sized (the 311's may be a slight skinny for .303"):
311-93-1R

311-100-2R

TL314-90-SWC (what I have)


Rifle-sized:
C312-155-2R

CTL312-160-2R (what I have)

C312-185-1R


There's more choice in a .309", but that's too small.
Source: http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1239739340.5843=/html/catalog/bullmol2.html
 
#18
stoatman said:
EX_STAB said:
Have you considered replicating the .310 cadet load in terms of bullet weight and velocity? Strikesme that it could be worth looking at. I think the whole idea is of merit particularly for training new shooters in view of the high prices of ammunition at present.
Surely the 160gn load does almost that? It's heavier & perhaps a smidgin slower, sure, but does the same job. Short of sourcing a 312-314 sized 120gn mould (and why would you when the Lee TL312-160-2R is $35 for a double cavity), I don't see what the advantage is.

The definitive article on cast loads for mil rifles is here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425

These are the easy-to-source and cheap moulds in the right diameters (terminology is diameter-weight-shape):

pistol-sized (the 311's may be a slight skinny for .303"):
311-93-1R

311-100-2R

TL314-90-SWC (what I have)


Rifle-sized:
C312-155-2R

CTL312-160-2R (what I have)

C312-185-1R


There's more choice in a .309", but that's too small.
Source: http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1239739340.5843=/html/catalog/bullmol2.html
I hadn't looked into it at all. Just thought of it. Do you have velocities/ ballistic curves to compare at all?
 
#19
310 cadet was 120gns at 1200fps
This is 160gns in the region of 1050-1200fps. The 6.9gn loads were starting to get noisy, so I suspect that the 6.3 and 6.6 loads were approaching 1100fps.

Ballistically, whatever you're chucking down subsonic is shooting rainbows and the bullet weight / BC won't make a jot of difference at the ranges and velocities we're talking about.

Once you're set up for casting though, you can practically cast for free, what with scrap lead at EUR1.10 per kg. An hour's casting uses about 10p's worth of electricity. Definitely the way forward for short-range, although the serious guys go cast up to 600yds! (check the linked article). If a club has someone prepared to cast, it's the way forward. Also, if the club's safety cert doesn't specify "pistol calibres" but only velocities/energies, you can train fullbore with these things on a pistol range.
 
#20
stoatman said:
310 cadet was 120gns at 1200fps
This is 160gns in the region of 1050-1200fps. The 6.9gn loads were starting to get noisy, so I suspect that the 6.3 and 6.6 loads were approaching 1100fps.

Ballistically, whatever you're chucking down subsonic is shooting rainbows and the bullet weight / BC won't make a jot of difference at the ranges and velocities we're talking about.

Once you're set up for casting though, you can practically cast for free, what with scrap lead at EUR1.10 per kg. An hour's casting uses about 10p's worth of electricity. Definitely the way forward for short-range, although the serious guys go cast up to 600yds! (check the linked article). If a club has someone prepared to cast, it's the way forward. Also, if the club's safety cert doesn't specify "pistol calibres" but only velocities/energies, you can train fullbore with these things on a pistol range.
We write our own safety certificates now. I do actually shoot .22 rimfire out to 300yards. It's a bit tricky beyond that.
 

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