Integrity

Unfortunately, these days, it's often convenient for some to label a person with integrity as a 'Jobsworth' if they are not bending the rules that you want them to bend,
 
Ive said many times we now live in a society where there are no consequences to your actions. Crime can be committed repeatedly & at best you will receive a slap on the wrist. Commit a heinous crime & actually get sent down where you will be allowed to live in relative luxury amongst many like minded folk.

do something stupid & actually face a consequence, for instance a crime in a foreign land, the woke brigade will shout & scream until despite your stupidity you become the victim.

People are no longer told no & the line moves ever backwards to save it being crossed.
 

Yokel

LE
Continuing on my thoughts about the way small holes in the thin plastic bag spread and led to failure, it goes without saying a thicker bag wold not have been puinctured so easily, and if it had it would not have spread so rapidly. Once someone agrees to do something that violates their values, it becomes easier to violate them next time, and a bit more after that.

Look at the way the Nazis persecuted the Jews and others - one small step followed another. It is a spiral to hell.
 

Yokel

LE
The problem with so much of modern life is that we all depend on others doing the right thing, owning up to their faults and taking responsibility for their actions, and correct records being kept. But what if there is a cover up culture with a total lack of checks and balances?

If we accept that all people are flawed, and so are everything they create, checks and balances are everything?
 
Perhaps we could start by holding people to higher standards than currently happens, and making them legally accountable for their actions if they don't

Highly laudable, but unworkable, where do you start. MP's seem to be the top of the totem pole, then senior civil servants, Military VSO's, police ditto. further down the food chain, local town and city councillors. lawyers seem to be a law unto themselves, as do the heads of multi nationals.

Then we get to the bottom of the pecking order, Joe Schmo, Mr 9-5, who just want to get through the day in one piece, and even he is susceptible to a bit of ducking and diving, whether he be a fisherman, plumber, coal merchant, farmer, or shop assistant, if a quick un-taxed quid can be made, he will have a go, hoping he will not get caught, his crime is no more heinous than Sir ponsaby Babington Smyth OBE, head of consolidated widgets, is all a matter of scale.

The days of doing the right thing, and an Englishman's word is his bond, are long gone, that died with the demise of the empire and the atomic age.

Every man and his wife is out to con the system, from the top echelons of society, with off shore tax havens, to Fred Nurk, trying to pull one with the DWP.

We are now into the murky world of professional con merchants, The very worst of CHAV shit hole council bottom feeders, and the Caravan Utilising Nomadic Travellers, all in their own way totally unaccountable, and all representing the very worst of society.

Your comment making them accountable by law is preposterous. Money buys you justice. How many multi millionaire heads of Big company's who are known to the Inland revenue, Starbucks, Amazon, etc are in jail?

Note To @lokiuk, Apologies for my comments to your 12 August post. I have only just read it.
 
On @Ravers' thread about the decline of Britain I have suggested that the decline in integrity is a major societal problem. This of course leads to questions like what it is, why does it matter, and what can be done to encourage it?

Integrity can mean something such as the structure of a ship or an aircraft being sound and strong enough to resist stresses. It can be used to indicate that data held by computer are accurate and reliable. Applied to the individual, it means a number of things including honesty, reliability, having moral standards, and sticking to those standards, even in difficult circumstances. I suppose it is the polar opposite of hypocrisy. One of the things is that someone's actions would stand up to investigation - and that a person seeks to do the right thing, according to their own moral values or the values of society, an organisation they are part of, or whatever, and not the easy thing.

It matters because doing the right thing seems to be less valued than it was. Doing the easy thing and jumping on bandwagons seems to take priority. I am not saying everyone must think like me, or the majority, or act 100% correctly at all times. Far from it - I am a great believer in the concept of bounded rationality and accept that people often have limited knowledge and experience - so they do their best. However, I expect people to do as they say, or to tell the truth to the best of their ability.

In short - it is a matter of trust. Doing the right thing even if there is nobody looking....

Can it be encouraged? I think penalising deliberate liars and cheats, whether or not they commit criminal offences, has to be a good think. I would like to see more wrong doers from public life being charged with Misconduct in Public Office.

What do you think?
COMPROMISE IS ROT!

You have just gotten started shaking off the rot that has accumulated.

Give the socialists all the free stuff they can handle til they drown, in prison.
 

Yokel

LE
Welcome to the world of Capitalism...

Each to their own and own to their each
I do not think that is unique to capitalism. Cover ups and a obsession with secrecy were features of Communism - and all heirachial systems. Toxic cultures are characterised by the promotion of a self serving clique.

Scapegoats have often been sought by those seeking to blame the innocent for their own failings. The solution is openness and 100% accountability.
 

Yokel

LE
One of the things I have learnt to my cost is the willingness of some people to protect their own reputation and avoid accepting responsibility for mistakes by destroying the reputations of those they are meant to be in charge of. They do so fully aware of the consequences for individuals that are the subject of rumours and unfair blame.

Once your reputation is destroyed there is no recovery. Dishonesty is the surest route to hell.
 
I once worked for a wideboy spiv type in a garage in a posh part of town.
We used to offer storage for customers vehicles. After working and basically keeping the place afloat for the best part of a year, my boss wanted a word. It turns out that a dashboard cigarette lighter had disappeared from an old Aston Martin and he basically accused me of nicking it.
I gave him a lecture about integrity and I may have used some choice language.
I put my tools in the boot of my car and left there and then.
 

Yokel

LE
The current COV!D-19 pandemic beings the integrity issue to the fore. If the Chinese authorities had been open about the outbreak from the start, everyone, including the people in China, would be better off. Thousands of lives would not have been lost, and possibly millions of livelihoods ruined. Instead of buying PPE openly, saying what had happened, and allowing global production to be increased, they used individuals to but small amounts without raising suspicions.

But who will the PRC sell their products to, if they have destroyed the global economy?

To stop dissent, authorities in China had resorted to repressive measures to protect the reputation of President Xi. His underlings have tried to deflect blame, whilst in Moscow the opportunity to weaken Western governments and societal structures has been seized. It was a great propaganda coup to send military medical aid to Italy, yet most of it was of little use.

Our media seem determined to find fault with the response of HM Government. In many ways that is their role, but alarmist and misleading headlines could well cause people to be exposed to needless risks. Rumours about animals have caused pets to be abandoned. Rumours about 5G masts have caused the hard of thinking to attack them. The irony is they probably learned of the rumours via their mobile phone.

Integrity is as important as it ever has been.
 
The current COV!D-19 pandemic beings the integrity issue to the fore. If the Chinese authorities had been open about the outbreak from the start, everyone, including the people in China, would be better off. Thousands of lives would not have been lost, and possibly millions of livelihoods ruined...
It's not dissimilar to the situation the USSR had with Chernobyl.
 

Yokel

LE
It's not dissimilar to the situation the USSR had with Chernobyl.
One similarity is that anyone who tried to flag up concerns about the bio-safety of the Wuhan Virology Institute was speaking out against the power of the Communist autocracy, just like people who expressed concerns about the experiments happening at Chernobyl.

The Magna Carta provided the framework to separate facts regarding safety or security from the authority of political (or business) leaders. However it does involve moral courage to speak up, particularly if the leadership decides things like promotion.

Integrity is everything. Assume people act rationally, but they can only make good decisions if they have the right information.

Dishonesty is the surest path to Hell.
 
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Yokel

LE
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link - therefore the onus is always on the individual to act with integrity. Sadly, short term rewards can produce a positive feedback loop at the expense of the bigger picture. A recent example in the United States is truly shocking:

Substandard steel provided for USN submarine construction

SEATTLE — For decades, the Navy's leading supplier of high-strength steel for submarines provided subpar metal because one of the company's longtime employees falsified lab results — putting sailors at greater risk in the event of collisions or other impacts, federal prosecutors said in court filings Monday.

The supplier, Kansas City-based Bradken Inc., paid $10.9 million as part of a deferred prosecution agreement, the Justice Department said. The company provides steel castings that Navy contractors Electric Boat and Newport News Shipbuilding use to make submarine hulls.

Bradken in 2008 acquired a foundry in Tacoma, Washington, that produced steel castings for the Navy. According to federal prosecutors, Bradken learned in 2017 that the foundry's director of metallurgy had been falsifying the results of strength tests, indicating that the steel was strong enough to meet the Navy's requirements when in fact it was not.


Prosecutors say the company initially disclosed its findings to the Navy but then wrongfully suggested that the discrepancies were not the result of fraud. That hindered the Navy's investigation into the scope of the problem as well as its efforts to remediate the risks to its sailors, prosecutors said.

Unforgivable!
 

Yokel

LE
Many of you will be aware that I help care for my disabled mother. Not so long ago she developed pressure injuries to her heels. Yesterday a senior nurse saw her and gave us a leaflet entitled Duty of Candour.

Not only have they expressed regret that this happened, but there will be an investigation by people not involved.

I have to contrast and compare this to a situation when horrible rumours were spread about me to cover up failings and a complaint I submitted being upheld. Every time they could have stopped it they did nothing.
 
...A lot of people criticise religion, but I think the decline of morality and civic virtue goes hand-in-hand with the decline of ecclesia. If people aren't taught about the importance of mercy, kindness and decency then the only thing left is the law of tooth and claw, and that seems to be where we find ourselves today.

It might work a lot better if religious organisations displayed those qualities themselves, rather than just pontificate on them on Sunday mornings/Friday afternoons.
 
I have a theory relating to having 2 inept people in the chain of command, or it's civilian equivalent. If you're sat below them, it's almost impossible to get past them if it's not in their interest. I have recent experience of 3 people in the chain which led to possibly the most toxic working environment I have ever had the pleasure of serving in. When the offenders integrity is in question, you've got no chance of putting a complaint in without going through pain that is probably not worth it.
 

Yokel

LE
I have a theory relating to having 2 inept people in the chain of command, or it's civilian equivalent. If you're sat below them, it's almost impossible to get past them if it's not in their interest. I have recent experience of 3 people in the chain which led to possibly the most toxic working environment I have ever had the pleasure of serving in. When the offenders integrity is in question, you've got no chance of putting a complaint in without going through pain that is probably not worth it.
Having experienced a cover up culture I can see where you are coming from. Sadly it only takes a few individuals lacking integrity and moral courage to derail things.

Too many systems lack the checks and balances to ensure the integrity of information. Information seems to be treated as fact because someone said so.
 
Having experienced a cover up culture I can see where you are coming from. Sadly it only takes a few individuals lacking integrity and moral courage to derail things.

Too many systems lack the checks and balances to ensure the integrity of information. Information seems to be treated as fact because someone said so.
Agreed, and to make life more difficult, if you're going to whistle blow, your facts need to be perfect, and corroborated by others willing to stick their head above the parapet. All whistle blowers need clean records and be above reproach. It's completely understandable why you wouldn't want to take the "system" on.
 
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