Infantry

#1
Bitching&insecurities apart,can anyone give me a solid reason females shouldn't be allowed in Infantry if they can prove themeselves capable?Or have their own Infantry Corps?Other countries successfully manage it.My gripe is,why when I ask to do some PROPER soldiering is the answer always'Course you can,dear-mine's white,no sugar'?!Its costing me £6500 of my own dosh to do the CP/parachute/small arms training I wanted.I sure Women's Lib,but are we neglecting a rescource?The boys'll say they've worked with some crap s(so have I;I agree,some are an embarrassment!)but haven't you also been lumbered with some incompetent blokes when even A couldn't have been worse?!Friendly,light-hearted debate,please-Im genuinely interested in your thoughts! :wink:
 
#2
I'll tell you why. It's because it's wrong. I'll accept women in supporting arms and women fighter pilots and women qualifying on small arms so that they can defend themselves.

I will not accept women deliberately setting out to kill people at close quarters. It's bad enough that the human condition makes us ask men to do it.

You can join in the march and shoot competition and go on a parachute course if you want. I don't care. I'm just not taking you out on an ambush, or anything like it, that's all.
 
#3
Having served in the infantry since 91, and having done both Brecon courses, SCBC and PSBC,my answer is that as long as you can do the job ie carry the kit,etc. then i've got no worries with women coming into the infantry, It's just that there are not enough women that can, to make any sort of impact on any bn, the arguement of hygine {if you had to spend more than a month in a trench} and the old one that if you got injured alongside a male the guy's will automaticly atten'd to the female.

the main reason is the lad's in my plt will f**k anything that moves throw a cuple of chicks into the back of a warrior and you'll never get em to de-bus :!: :D
 
#4
Airborne sister

Are you a journalist?

The Army has tried to see if women can work as Infantry soldiers - the bottom line is, in general they cannot. ( dont go on about Soviet Snipers either ) There is the fact that women do not have the load carrying ability of men: the blokes from Planet Tefal reckon that we should be able to carry loads of about 40% ( :lol: ) of bodyweight: women in general being smaller..... ever carried a greeny? Goes on top of your CEMO...

The Israeli Defence Force tried putting women into tanks. Tank gets hit, woman gets hurt, entire crew stop to look after her. Bad idea.

BTW, I'm not sexist - my mum is a female.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#5
Girlie Guards? Gimme gimme! I'd love to see their bare-skins, fnurk fnurk, and no doubt they'd always be welcome to 'jump' with the Paras. Yee ha!
 
#7
AirborneSister said:
Or have their own Infantry Corps?
Just seen this... instead of milling: catslap, screatching and hairpulling GO!!

Aaah, stereotyping.. its great...
 
#8
come_to_arrest_the_zulus said:
breaks down the trust within a platoon

nothing says stab me in the back like a pair of 34c's :!:
If there is anyone from the PC bde reading this, feck orf.

As a male of the species if i walk into a room and I see a woman the first thought to my mind is " would I feck her".
I dont care if shes 16 or 106, I dont care if shes a Private or a Brigadier, that is my basic reaction to a woman.
In my experience the fights that occur in a pub, nightclub, NAAFI bop have all started over a woman.
For example, in a unit how many times have you said "bosss Im going to the RAO to sort out my pay" when really what you meant was " Boss, Im going to the RAO to check out Pte Mckinelys tits".
Put a woman in a fighting section and whether she can carry the load or not ( I could not give a crap) there will be problems! because,
She is a woman and I am a man.

SK
 
#9
I was in one of the first RA units to accept women straight from training, at first it seemed a good idea as they were a good pair of girls that threw themselves into everything, couldn't carry the same kit as the men but still pulled their weight. Why ? Becuase we treated them like soldiers.

Then we went to NI and one of them discovered the LI bods will fall over themselves to do things for her, in the end she was always down thier lines getting pissed and late for everything, but men being men let her get away with it, she discovered that a pair of tits gets you a lot of privilges, not her fault the fault of her male bosses, but it set a precednece. It meant that women will always be seen as others not one of the men.

When we got back to the regt we discovered a hell of a lot more all pre-programmed with this knowledge and there were real problems, like one that failed her APWT and fluttered her eyes at me, was most annoyed when I made her do it again, went off in a strop saying that she had never in 3 years passed one but all the other instructors let her off. Another example was when I disciplined a female soldier only to have her Sgt boyfriend to rip me a new arrsehole

Question is who is at fault ? The girl for pulling the stroke or the men who let them get away with it ? There is your problem.

Now this was in a Combat Support arm, what on earth would it be like in an Infantry unit ? Well I can give you a glimpse, unfortunatly one of our female soldiers was murdered by her "boyfriend" she was a great girl and a good soldier, one of the best female soliders we had and recently had got promoted. When we were told that she had been killed ALL the women in our unit had to be removed from the field as they were all collasping and crying, and that was just the start, her unit was plled off the exercise completly s even the men couldn't carry on. There was even even blokes in our unit that knew her had problems . One women dies and the regt almost collapses. This was the same regt that lost a guy less than a year before in NI. he got blown up by a limpet mine, no-one was removed from duty, it happened and we got on with it.

Something I said to a colleague about the girls murder and the state of the unit during a later exercise. We were eating out the back of the cooks truck during a break and I looked around me at the mixture of men and women in there little groups, there was 2 marrages, 3 steady relationships (plus a few broken ones but of course they are still in the same mob) several flirty non serious relationships and one brother and sister.

I looked at the group and said "How do you think this unit could perform if we took 20% casualties in war ? considering there is a good chance that a dead colleuge might just be a a lover or relative ? Who do you think xxx and xxx could perform if they heard that the CP Main had beeb destroyed knowing that a wife and a brother were on board ?"

These are the things that you must consider first

One last point, the mention of a womens corps, maybe we could call it the Womens Royal Army Corps perhaps ? How usefull do you think they could be in Iraq? Stopping and questioning the Muslim men ? And not just Muslims, many other cultures still look down on the women, who are they going to get the job down if they are cosidered a a lesser status ??
 
#10
Good post, wellyhead. Neatly sums up all the bits that those who foist these changes on us never have to deal with.
 
#11
excellent post, Wellyhead
 
#12
So APART from bloke's weaknesses&inability to deal with stuff,control their emotions,put the job first,be proffessional&keep it in their trousers-does anyone have a solid point against females in infantry?!The weight-bearing issue doesn't stand up as I'm 7&half stone&can sprint carrying my oppo even if he IS a 15stone squaddie.&why does everyone ask if I'm a journalist?!So,the bottom line is-no women in Infantry cos blokes have got ISSUES?!Fair one.I appreciate your honesty,guys,&pleasantly suprised at the lack of nastiness you addressed this one with.Respect to you.By the way,mine are 34DD;what's that got to do with soldiering?!
 
#13
In reality, there is no other solid point. But the issues of the blokes is more than enough to stymie the idea before it even gets off the drawing board.

In my, admittedly limited experience of working with women in the Army, things tend to go one of two ways. Either the girl in question is thought of as a fantastic lass and gets the boys falling over themselves to help her out, leading to the same problem wellyhead highlighted, or she is despised for being weak, and cast out of the 'fold' in a way that even the biggest male idiot would never experience.

So there it is. Very unfortunate, but there it is, and it'll be a generational thing (if indeed it isn't genetic), before things change.
 
#15
This forum specifically says it's for
News, rumours and gossip or if that doesn't interest you just write lies!
Why didn't you post your question in the Infantry forum?
 
#16
However, that's all well and good, but we need more information about your 'assets'. What has it got to do with soldiering?

It has everything to do with anything...and...just answer the question please, ma'am.
 
#17
I LIKE you,Belushi-you're a tart.That'd be a whole new forum.The weight issue was an example,don't let's split hairs,the issue still boils down to my losing out'cos of male weaknesses!But you're honest,so thanks.And yes,it should've been posted somewhere else&I CAN'T use a computer,hence my argument that I am totally unsuited to the office.I make a lousy cuppa too.I can't communicate well,I can TAB&fcuk,that's about it-but surely that makes me top Infantry material?! :wink:
 
#18
its all well and good pointing out that YOU can run carrying a 15 st bloke BUT can you say the same for the majority of your counterparts ? We had a guy who was that lightweight and he couldn't do half the things expected of him, he got sacked, that was it, finished. That was the rule, can't do it, on your bike.

Unfortunately a lot of the rules are being re-written to take such things into account, I will give you yet another example

My unit trialed a new piece of kit, the troop trials had been completed and the orbats were written. Then it was noted that it hadn't been trialed with women as they were not RA badged at the start so a hasty one was set up.

One of the jobs required man-handling some equipment, it was proved that 2 average built men could handle that job and thus the new orbat was written accordingly, they then chose the 2 strongest women in the unit to try it out. They couldn't do it and the equipment was too heavy. So they were given a hard task of what to do next, the first idea was to increase the number in the orbat to 3 for the role, but this was unworkable as it required more resources so they hit upon another plan. Place all the women irrespective of abilty in roles such as the CP, this was a very technically minded piece of kit and the better pay and promotion chances existed in the CP.

The up shot was, women overnight had a greater chance for promotion in the unit simply because of their gender, guys were stuck as fetcher and carriers and I tell you know they weren’t happy bunnies.

BUT back to my original comments that seem to be missed


So,the bottom line is-no women in Infantry cos blokes have got ISSUES
No women have issue to, re-read what I said

When we were told that she had been killed ALL the women in our unit had to be removed from the field as they were all collapsing and crying
How do you think xxx and xxx could perform if they heard that the CP Main had been destroyed knowing that a wife and a brother were on board ?
It takes two to tango and lets put it bluntly, women find it harder to deal with the death of others than men do, its in our genes, women care more why else are they so many female nurses and so many male police/fire ?

On the other side of the coin men are naturally protective of women, remember the qoute about Israeli tank crews ? In a section attack you must throw humanity away and get in there a kill with your bare hands if necessary, that’s the facts, are you really prepared to stick a bayonet in a 17 year old conscripts face ? Because one day you may have to do just that and to tell you the truth I really don't know many men able to do that either. Again other side of the coin, a man attacks a trench and is face to face with a young girl that he has to kill or perhaps the remains of one that he has had too shoot literarily to pieces. I have seen dead men in NI but nothing compares to a female SF councilor with at least 10 bullets in her head. A sight like that will never leave you, guys have to put up with a lot in war, ask any coming back from Iraq if they took any pleasure in seeing dead women and kids, then ask yourself how would you like to see them.
 
#19
The weight issue is what it boils down to in my view. Do you have any idea what an infantry soldier has to carry in combat?

His rifle, CBA, helmet and fighting order weighs 34.5kg (5 1/2 stone) if carrying the basic scale of ammunition. Minimis, LSWs, grenade launchers weigh more (and have additional ammo) the commander has a radio and one bloke per fire team gets to carry a 94. That's all before you include a bergan.

In a rifle company you will be can expected to carry ammunition for the MG/Mor?Milan pls. Don't expect Sp Coy to carry this themselves, they've got very heavy sp weapons to carry. In a "light" roled Bn any soldier that has less than 10 stone on his back is doing well.

Most women in the Army couldn't carry the basic scales for any meaningful distance, let alone move quickly in battle.
 
#20
Airborne sister

Are you a journalist?
Surely.

The fact is, women are bad for the Army in general. They cause all of the problems, and turn decent soldiers into gibbering fools. And some of them aren't even pretty - I'd say field conditions only. And they go to pieces in a crisis.

CH
 

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