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INEOS Grenadier 4X4

It'll be interesting how the Grenadier competes, especially with a £30-45,000 price tag.
 
Classic ploy to get concessions from council/government - it'll be built in the UK once he's happy - standard negotiation tactic.
As @giatttt says . . . .

Something of a nuanced argument, whether “Money is (not) everything” !!

How much cash would be involved, when, for how long and where, do you re-train 500 hairy-knuckled Welshmen, who have been used to casting, milling, assembling and torqueing-down Ford’s engines?

The car assembly workers at the Mercedes (former SMART) factory in France, are already familiar with the car assembly processes and requirements.

Yer' man Ratcliffe, is very much an “Internationalist”, if not exactly “European” . . . as I am certain INEOS would like their new Grenadier to be regarded!! Axles from the tractor maker in Italy. Engines from BMW. Engineering advice and expertise from Europe.

Daimler will also be keen to avoid redundancy payments, and the costs associated with decommissioning and decontaminating their site in France . . . if no buyer can be found.

1594129790461.png


 
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Works for me as im frog side and would be more than happy to work in the test and evaluation department.

Especially if it comes with company "car" and im allowed nay encouraged to use in keeping with its design
 
As @giatttt says . . . .

Something of a nuanced argument, whether “Money is (not) everything” !!

How much cash would be involved, when, for how long and where, do you re-train 500 hairy-knuckled Welshmen, who have been used to casting, milling, assembling and torqueing-down Ford’s engines?

The car assembly workers at the Mercedes (former SMART) factory in France, are already familiar with the car assembly processes and requirements.

Yer' man Ratcliffe, is very much an “Internationalist”, if not exactly “European” . . . as I am certain INEOS would like their new Grenadier to be regarded!! Axles from the tractor maker in Italy. Engines from BMW. Engineering advice and expertise from Europe.

Daimler will also be keen to avoid redundancy payments, and the costs associated with decommissioning and decontaminating their site in France . . . if no buyer can be found.

View attachment 487864

Honda have a spare factory in Swindon....
 
Posted in the New DEFENDER thread, and in the INEOS thread.

DO NOT (YET) BUY A NEW DISCOVERY 5 . . . the price of the existing new vehicles will soon be reduced to “move” existing stock, and after the “face-lift” who knows ?!

+ + + + + + + + + +

Published by AUTOCAR magazine, on 08 JULY 2020.

Our innovator STURMEY AWARD winner - GERRY McGOVERN long-serving design director at Land Rover.

We talk about the Discovery, the current design he agrees hasn’t been as successful as the rest.

Jerry McGovern (page 43) “I think I allowed myself – and the team – to be too influenced by the established visual DNA of previous Discoverys, stuff like the offset number plate and stepped roof . . . (it does) have a massive rear quarter . . . our facelift, which is imminent, will make changes that improve it significantly . . . “

It is clear, however, that McGovern thinks the next all-new Discovery, probably four years away, will provide an opportunity for real change.

Jerry McGovern (page 43) “We won’t alter its breadth of capability,” he says, “but we’ll make sure it’s perfectly differentiated from the Range Rover and that’ll optimise its appeal”.

1594376111684.png
 
Posted in the New DEFENDER thread, and in the INEOS thread.

DO NOT (YET) BUY A NEW DISCOVERY 5 . . . the price of the existing new vehicles will soon be reduced to “move” existing stock, and after the “face-lift” who knows ?!

+ + + + + + + + + +

Published by AUTOCAR magazine, on 08 JULY 2020.

Our innovator STURMEY AWARD winner - GERRY McGOVERN long-serving design director at Land Rover.

We talk about the Discovery, the current design he agrees hasn’t been as successful as the rest.

Jerry McGovern (page 43) “I think I allowed myself – and the team – to be too influenced by the established visual DNA of previous Discoverys, stuff like the offset number plate and stepped roof . . . (it does) have a massive rear quarter . . . our facelift, which is imminent, will make changes that improve it significantly . . . “

It is clear, however, that McGovern thinks the next all-new Discovery, probably four years away, will provide an opportunity for real change.

Jerry McGovern (page 43) “We won’t alter its breadth of capability,” he says, “but we’ll make sure it’s perfectly differentiated from the Range Rover and that’ll optimise its appeal”.

View attachment 488560
Just found the following . . . . ;) !

+ + + + + + + + + + + +

DISCOVERY
Enhanced offers available on selected Discovery vehicles, up to £8,500 Finance Deposit Allowance and APR 3.9%.


+ + + + + + + + + + + +

Similar "discount" on "full-fat" Range-Rover, but with higher 5.9% APR, and - of course - totally market position/price category.
 
Just found the following . . . . ;) !

+ + + + + + + + + + + +

DISCOVERY
Enhanced offers available on selected Discovery vehicles, up to £8,500 Finance Deposit Allowance and APR 3.9%.


+ + + + + + + + + + + +

Similar "discount" on "full-fat" Range-Rover, but with higher 5.9% APR, and - of course - totally market position/price category.
A bit of Fred Drift but... Have you seen ‘Land Rover Pivotal

A ‘fresh' car every six months starting from just £550 up front and then:

£750/m for:
  • Discovery Sport
  • Evoque
  • Jaguar F-Pace
£1150/m for:
  • Discovery
  • Velar
  • Jaguar I-Pace
£1350/m gets a Range Rover Sport and
£1600/m gets a Full Fat Range Rover.

The ‘fresh‘ cars (note their use of the word ‘fresh’ rather than new) are not new - they can be up to two years old. 1500 miles per month limit, 20p/mile thereafter and insurance excesses apply.

The monthly payment includes everything except fuel but PCP for the same vehicles with tax, insurance and servicing/wear and tear items works out cheaper and you optionally get to buy the car you have nurtured at the end of the term.
 
Posted on the INEOS thread, and on the New DEFENDER thread , , ,

INEOS GRENADIER or LAND ROVER DEFENDER. Which one would you buy?

•Jul 8, 2020

Attacking a vehicle segment that most car makers have largely abandoned, is the Ineos Grenadier the Land Rover Defender replacement that the die-hard fans where hoping for? . . .


.
@bobthebuilder is the well known 4x4 writer, explorer and filmmaker, Andrew St Pierre White, and I claim my £5-00 !! ;) .
 
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Welcome to episode 5 of ‘Building the Grenadier’.

Last time Mark Evans visited designer, Toby Ecuyer, to see how he created the look of the INEOS Grenadier. This time we’re ready to share the engine and transmission our proper 4X4 will have. And answer your questions about torque, cylinders, engine choices and more.

Team Grenadier

EPISODE 5: POWERED FOR THE WORLD

Whatever job you want the Grenadier to do, having all the power you need on tap is vital. Rugged terrain, heavy loads, the harshest conditions – our engine and transmission combination is designed to handle anything you can throw at it. What else would you expect from a no-nonsense off-roader built for the world? Ploughing on with work, enjoying a hobby, getting off road for some serious action – how you utilise it is up to you. Ready to lift the bonnet and see what’s underneath?

 
Also posted on the "New Land Rover DEFENDER" thread . . .

Published by: James Andrews, FARMERS WEEKLY, on 01 September 2020.

British-built Ibex 4×4 offers Land Rover Defender alternative.

Ibex 4x4 short wheelbase . . .

Since production of the original Land Rover Defender drew to a close, there’s been a dearth of options for those wanting a proper no-nonsense off-roader.


Many fans of the Solihull-built truck have been holding out hope that Ineos’ Grenadier will fill the void, but they’ll probably have been unaware that an alternative was already waiting in the wings.

Built in an unassuming industrial estate in the steel town of Rotherham, Foers Engineering’s Ibex is essentially a Defender that’s been on the protein pills.

Its sturdy ladder chassis and cabin monocoque is formed out of laser-cut steel plate and the folded aluminium body panels are riveted and bonded to the framework, making them easy to replace if pranged.

As for the drivetrain, this is a Land Rover-style, permanent four-wheel drive setup with centre and axle diff-locks, teamed with a manual or automatic transmission.

Power can come from a number of diesel and petrol engines and a pure electric-drive model is on the cards for next year.

Most importantly, it can tow 3.5t, carry a 1.5t payload and comes in myriad configurations, including single and double-cab pickups, station wagons and even a six-wheeler.

Unlike the Defender, or Ineos’ Grenadier, the Foers Ibex is a low-volume vehicle, meaning it’s never going to be built in large numbers. But for those looking for a custom-built, rugged truck, it’s an interesting option.

The current Ibex F8 is designed by company owner David Foers, who does much of the construction work himself, helped by a band of specialist freelance engineers and fabricators.

Vehicles start out as a pile of laser-cut steel profiles, which are welded together to form a one-piece ladder chassis and cabin superstructure.

Once completed, these monocoques are sent for hot-dip galvanising, before folded aluminium body panels are fitted.

These are located using pop-rivets, but the primary method of attaching them to the shell is a waterproof adhesive, which is also designed to prevent electrolytic corrosion between the panels and galvanised frame.

The adhesive works in a similar way to a car windscreen seal, meaning damaged panels can be removed by drilling out the rivets and using a sharp object to cut through the bond.

The bonnet and wheel-arch extensions are made from GRP and the bumpers are formed out of high-yield steel.

Foers will build a vehicle with almost any wheelbase, but its standard offerings are 236cm (93in), 254cm (100in), 315cm (124in), 330cm (130in) and 368cm (145in).

In all cases, most of the weight is kept between the wheels, and smaller models have zero body overhang.

With tyres sticking out beyond the bodywork on all four corners, these vehicles are able to drop in and climb out of steep, narrow ditches without snagging the bodywork . . . (which if true, would be illegal !!).

Foers also says it improves stability when towing.

Another of the Ibex’s novel features is its centrally mounted winch, which has cables running through the chassis to the front and rear bumpers.

This allows the vehicle to pull in either direction using a single winch, plus giving the option of dragging itself along the cable.

When it comes to putting a vehicle together, customers have the option of speccing . . .

1). brand-new components or

2). using a low-mileage donor vehicle to source the engine, transmission and some of the running gear.

The second option is a fairly popular one, as it almost halves the build price.

A common engine choice for those seeking more modest performance is a Land Rover TD5.

New-builds receive a remanufactured version and those using donor parts can have this overhauled to improve longevity.

According to Mr Foers, it’s a reliable performer and is well able to handle being tuned to more than 200bhp.
“It should have a better reputation than it does,” he says.

“It’s strong, smooth and most of the common problems are related to the original ancillaries, which we don’t use.”

Some simpler builds use Land Rover 300 TDI engines, as they don’t require electronic engine management, and those looking for more power can use a 3-litre BMW diesel from the 330D.

1599132836508.png


1599132818402.png


1599132789329.png


Photos of more versions within link . . .

 
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I am disappoint !
Utmost sympathy for any who were hoping for worthwhile employment from it. I'll leave it at that.
 
Is the grenadier legal under European safety rules? I though the reason the defender died a death was that it couldn't match them? Don't get why they would build this in France...

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 
Is the grenadier legal under European safety rules? I though the reason the defender died a death was that it couldn't match them? Don't get why they would build this in France...

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
Because there was a clear business case for taking over an existing factory and experienced workforce?
Whatever you think might have motivated his pro-Brexit stance, maximising profit is Ratcliffe's primary motivation.
 
Is the Grenadier legal under European safety rules?
I have not seen this "spelt-out", in words of one syllable, but it would be a daft business proposition if the Grenadier were not approved for markets world-wide; and, I am certain the likes of BMW, would NOT be supplying major components to a vehicle that was unsafe!
I though the reason the defender died a death was that it couldn't match them?
Correct. But, whilst the lay-out, architecture (separate frame), may be similar, there is nothing in common between the old JLR Defender, and the new INEOS Genadier.
Don't get why they would build this in France . . .
Money . . . £ . . . $ . . . . Euro . . . whatever . . .
 
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Because there was a clear business case for taking over an existing factory and experienced workforce?
Whatever you think might have motivated his pro-Brexit stance, maximising profit is Ratcliffe's primary motivation.
I am not sure (just) "making a profit", was Ratcliffe's intial motivation. He is wealthy enough, to indulge his own whims, and fueled by alcoholic conversations in the Grenadier pub, set-out to see if he could succeed where JLR did not want to go! And, having proved the "Business Plan" on paper and spread-sheets, one thing led to another.

It is all - of course - a gamble . . . and, anything/everything, that can be done to reduce the risk element, would be welcome.

As I mentioned in/at post #102 . . .

How much cash would be involved, when, for how long and where, do you re-train 500 hairy-knuckled Welshmen, who have been used to casting, milling, assembling and torqueing-down Ford’s engines?

The car assembly workers at the Mercedes (former SMART) factory in France, are already familiar with the car assembly processes and requirements.

Yer' man Ratcliffe, is very much an “Internationalist”, if not exactly “European” . . . as I am certain INEOS would like their new Grenadier to be regarded!! . . . . Axles from the tractor maker in Italy. Engines from BMW. Engineering advice and expertise from (across) Europe.

Daimler will also be keen to avoid redundancy payments, and the costs associated with decommissioning and decontaminating their site in France . . . if no buyer can be found.


1594129790461.png


www.autocar.co.uk


 

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