The big buyers of 4x4s aren’t in the UK. The biggest selling car in the USA is the Ford F-150. The biggest in Australia is the Toyota Hilux. Toyota sell thousands of Landcruisers and Prados in both countries. I can see Landrover taking sales off those.The big buyers of 4x4s including LR Defenders, are not farmers but yuppies and nouveau rich pretending to be adventurous offroaders.
We have at least 3 regulars round here, one with a white 110, one with a black 110 fully tricked up with sand boards etc etc and a third one also in black with lots of chrome.
All of them are cleaner than my MX5 and I've not seen any of them with even the smallest speck of mud on them. The new Defender will be aimed at the yummy mummy and nouveauu rich again because that's where the sales and profit are.
Rangers have cart sprung live axles at the back, coils at the front. The Raptor has long travel coils all round; they’re in a different league off road to the Wildtrack. Big problem though; the rear suspension reduces the load bed size and the payload is under 2500 kg so it’s not a commercial vehicle. In the UK that means you can’t claim the VAT back. Here you can only claim GST on the first $50k; they don’t sell many Raptors as a result.Ranger is IFS ? limited travel ...or at least the UK version is ...
We don't get the V8 Supercharged Patrol sadly....
In fact in the UK we struggle for any decent aftermarket kit for any upgrades ....
We don't get proper Cruisers ...
We don't often get the big engine versions ....
Still wouldn't buy a Defender on looks alone ....and have enough experience with Land/ Range Rover electrical woes not to trust the software in any of them even if the hardware is sorted......
Would however love to fill several containers with Aussie proper made camping and off road kit , upgrades for Landcruisers etc..... we can't even buy decent seat covers like Black Duck
A mate in Holland has a proper Raptor .... based on the F150 ??Rangers have cart sprung live axles at the back, coils at the front. The Raptor has long travel coils all round; they’re in a different league off road to the Wildtrack. Big problem though; the rear suspension reduces the load bed size and the payload is under 2500 kg so it’s not a commercial vehicle. In the UK that means you can’t claim the VAT back. Here you can only claim GST on the first $50k; they don’t sell many Raptors as a result.
Ford do sell the Ranger Raptor in the UK. Same car as we get here; near enough a complete re-engineering of the Ranger. Engine in 2.2l twin scroll turbo diesel in place of the 3.2 V6. Ford Ranger Raptor review | AutocarA mate in Holland has a proper Raptor .... based on the F150 ??
What we get in the UK as a Ranger is a small IFS pickup with at best a 3.2 litre 5 cylinder engine and a live rear axle and little ground clearance built I think in Spain . They also market a "Raptor" version but it's little more than badges and plastic fender extensions with a slight lift .
We can buy an Artic Trucks version of the Hilux which has a suspension lift and fender flares but the engine is still standard and not the best Toyota have ever produced .
What we need is you Aussies to start getting some of your decent upgrades available over here ..... Graham's D Max performs pretty well and a lot of the tray back canopy conversions are great bits of kit .
I would love one of the Opus trailers ..........
In my case, a spare £30KI've been reading up about the Grenadier. From a probably too simplistic view (i.e. mine when it comes to 4x4) it seems a more practical vehicle for people who need useful storage space, and different load configurations, than the hardtop Defender.
If a person or body wants to buy British, the Grenadier looks useful. What am i missing?
Not only is the F-150 the #1 selling vehicle, the #2 (RAM) and #3 (Chevy Silverado) are also trucks. Not even included is the F-250/350, RAM 2500/3500 and GM 2500/3500, as they cross into commercial territory for some of the models. That said, they’re not all 4x4. In the south, you don’t necessarily want the weight/complexity/cost of it, so 4x2 is reasonably common in the south - although 4x4 is becoming more prevalent. My last three have been 4x4, and they’re easier to find than they were. Most of the Heavy/Super Duty are 4x4.The big buyers of 4x4s aren’t in the UK. The biggest selling car in the USA is the Ford F-150. The biggest in Australia is the Toyota Hilux. Toyota sell thousands of Landcruisers and Prados in both countries. I can see Landrover taking sales off those.
The Australian mining industry has been crying out for vehicles that have better primary safety than the old Japanese offerings; it’s no longer acceptable to put people out in vehicles that offer 1970s safety levels. They buy more 4x4 cars (not utes) a year than Landrover ever sold Defenders.
Rangers have cart sprung live axles at the back, coils at the front. The Raptor has long travel coils all round; they’re in a different league off road to the Wildtrack. Big problem though; the rear suspension reduces the load bed size and the payload is under 2500 kg so it’s not a commercial vehicle. In the UK that means you can’t claim the VAT back. Here you can only claim GST on the first $50k; they don’t sell many Raptors as a result.
The current Patrol is in Range Rover territory; all leather and shiny plastic lights. It’s lost it’s utilitarian roots. You don’t see many of them around, even less the Infiniti abortion.
What has Toyota added to the 2018 Land Cruiser?
This generation of the Land Cruiser has been going since 2009, but has just had the latest in a series of small redesigns inside and out. I won’t call it a styling update; that’d be an insult. The Land Cruiser’s headlights and grille have been raised to better keep them out of the way of anything that might block or damage them. It has squarer front wings that make judging its extremities easier and a reprofiled bonnet so that you can better see large, pointy objects that are about to disappear under its wheels. Its front bumper has been reshaped, too, in order to make for the best possible approach angle. At no point, I'd like to think, have this car’s designers given much more than a passing thought to how ‘nice’ it looks.
As we reported last time around, the Land Cruiser’s body-on-frame construction survives (although it's been stiffened), and while the engine has been revised with a new turbo and a few other changes, it’s still a 2.8-litre four-cylinder diesel with an unspectacular-sounding 174bhp.
The car’s suspended by double wishbones up front and by a rigid axle secured by four links on each side at the rear. As standard, it comes with fixed-height steel coil springs, but top-of-the-line Invincible cars get adaptive dampers, an interlinked automatic roll stabilisation system and self-levelling air suspension for the rear wheels.
In terms of four-wheel drive hardware, there’s plenty going on, as you might imagine: a low-range transfer case, a torque sensing and lockable centre differential, a new lockable rear differential (fitted to top-line cars as standard) and a new Terrain Response-style off-road traction and stability control system called Multi Terrain Select.
Our test car came on Dunlop Grandtrek SUV tyres and had 215mm of ground clearance, 700mm of wading depth and a 31deg approach angle. So, all-corner air suspension or not, you can see why little might stop it.
What's the Toyota Land Cruiser like inside?
While attempts have been made to freshen and update this car’s interior to make it more refined and luxurious, and generally keep it broadly competitive with other SUVs you might spend £50,000 on, they’re of qualified success. And limited in scope, too – for good reasons. These are the kinds of revisions you expect of a car maker that knows its subject’s market positioning is about as secure as it could be and doesn’t think much needs fixing.
And so while Toyota’s interior updates have added a reshaped dashboard and a new instrument panel to the Invincible spec model, as well as a new centre console covered in shiny knobs and buttons for the various off-road modes, they haven’t exactly turned the Land Cruiser into a rival for an Audi Q7. Think of this car, instead, as a car of Land Rover Defender-level mud-plugging abilities, with the sort of interior comfort, quality and habitability you’d very happily accept and embrace in your everyday driver. The car’s heated and ventilated leather seats are soft and snug, and give you a great view out. Its fittings look and feel solid, and fairly expensive – but most of all, they’re plainly ready to last.
Further rearwards, the car now has sliding second-row seats and a third row that collapses properly into the boot floor rather than fold away upwards to take up boot space. It’s not a particularly roomy seven-seater by large SUV standards, but then it’s not a desperately large SUV.
Only the base-level, three-door Utility model has the choice between a manual or automatic gearbox; the rest of the range is exclusively served by the automatic. The Active model gains an 8.0in Touchscreen, DAB radio, dual-zone air conditioning, reversing camera and rear parking sensors. Power-adjustable seats, front parking sensors, adaptive cruise control and collision detection systems are added with the Icon model. The 5-mode drive select system, adaptive suspension and JBL sound system are reserved for the top-spec Invincible.
Driving the Toyota Land Cruiser
On the road, it’s certainly a smoother and more refined SUV than it used to be. Toyota’s efforts at putting manners on the car’s suspension and creating a calmer, less commercial-feeling ride quality consisted of fitting bigger dampers front and rear, reinforced suspension links and new bushings, as well as delivering longer-stroke wheel travel at the rear in particular. They have been successful. The Land Cruiser now feels fairly supple at low speeds and on the motorway, and while its body takes a long time to settle when the road surface is changing topography, it only moves around in a slow, gentle, low-amplitude, barely noticable sort of a way.
The car’s handling and body control remain of the sort you'd expect of a traditional SUV, rather than what you might of a 21st-century, 21in-wheeled, lowish-rise luxury sports SUV. You probably get twice as much body roll around a typical corner as you would in a road-biased alternative and perhaps two-thirds as much lateral grip – albeit delivered with plenty of stability, through fairly slow-geared, hydraulically assisted steering, and backed up by a decent electronic stability control system. But, of course, you are getting that in a genuine dual-purpose vehicle in which an unplanned excursion into a muddy field wouldn’t be touching the sides of what it’s actually designed to do. You don't find many new cars for which a designer or engineer might celebrate a raised centre of gravity; in this one, if such a change kept any major mechanicals further from harm as a result of grounding or offroading damage, you get the feeling they just might.
The Land Cruiser's on-road performance level is relatively low but, again, that's by the standards of cars whose engines probably couldn’t survive 10 days in the Atacama – running on ‘diesel’ that’s at least 40% alpaca sweat, and breathing more sand and dust than air – without going wrong.
So sure, on the road the Land Cruiser does feel slow; but it doesn’t feel like a failing. However, when people describe this as Toyota’s answer to the Range Rover, they are not only confusing their Land Cruisers (there’s a bigger one, formerly known to Brits as the Amazon, which is no longer sold here) but should perhaps be reminded that the last time a diesel Range Rover had this little power was the thick end of 20 years ago. The luxury 4x4 game’s moved on a bit since.
Not that a Land Cruiser driver would mind being reminded of that much, given how ruggedly invulnerable you feel at the wheel of this car. Credit to Toyota, also, for quietening down the engine considerably and better-sealing its interior from wind noise in this revised Land Cruiser. The engine retains a crochetty four-cylinder diesel growl, but it’s now hardly any noisier than plenty of other four-cylinder diesel SUVs are.
Can’t justify a fully-loaded seven-seater? Then how about a three-door manual, on steel wheels, for less than £33,000? That’s the price of a mid-range BMW X1. And, apart from anything else, doesn’t it sound like the perfect one-fingered salute to everything that’s objectionable about the SUV-obsessed modern car market?How does the Toyota Land Cruiser fare against other seven-seat SUVs?
This is a functional car – albeit a perfectly comfortable and pleasant one. If mounting the kerb at school kicking out time is the closest you get to off-roading, though, your needs would definitely be better served by a more typical modern SUV that’ll have better fuel economy and be easier to usher around the office car park.
That said, the Land Cruiser is certainly a likeable enough car to persuade you to develop a need for it. And if you really like the idea of owning one, Toyota has expanded the Land Cruiser model range to include a new entry-level 'Utility' trim level that, I’d wager, makes the car more affordable than you’d think.
That’s not a Landcruiser anywhere else but the UK; it’s a Prado. Basically a 30 year old design that is right at the end of its life in terms of primary safety, fuel consumption and emissions compliance.For reference I'll post this on the New Defender thread, and also the Grenadier thread.
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Originally published by: Matt Saunders, Road test editor, AUTOCAR magazine, on xx xxx xxxx.
Toyota Land Cruiser review. From £32,6997.
Toyota’s rough-and-ready, old-school, unstoppable 4x4 gets a bit less rough-and-ready. Likeably simple and functional, and worth considering if you need a genuine dual-purpose SUV.
We first sampled the updated 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser abroad, but our chance to take a view on it here in Britain just so happened to come in the week in which the cruellest winter weather for several years blew in.
Thus one ‘beast from the east’ met another (the car we know as the Land Cruiser, known as the Colorado previously and the Prado elsewhere in the world, is built primarily in Japan). And one made pretty short work of the other. You can probably guess which conquered which.
The Land Cruiser has a reputation for wilderness-taming robustness, unstoppable reliability and 4x4 capability that exceeds even that of Land Rover and Jeep. It’s not bought to survive the sand dunes of the Middle East, the prairies of South America or the Australian outback because it’s been designed ‘reductively’ or it’s available on a killer PCP deal. It's popular because it just keeps on going, come what may.
Can’t justify a fully-loaded seven-seater? Then how about a three-door manual, on steel wheels, for less than £33,000? That’s the price of a mid-range BMW X1. And, apart from anything else, doesn’t it sound like the perfect one-fingered salute to everything that’s objectionable about the SUV-obsessed modern car market?
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Toyota’s rough-and-ready, old-school, unstoppable 4x4 gets a bit less rough-and-ready. Likeably simple and functional, and worth considering if you need a genuine dual-purpose SUVwww.autocar.co.uk
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I am still looking for the AUTOCAR Long-Term Review of the "three-door manual, on steel wheels, for less than £33,000?", which Matt Prior admits he became quite fond of, and (I think) summarised as "honest". Sentiments that will be appreciated by many viewing and posting on these two threads.
I thought the UK spec Raptor was just a badge and lift kit.....but why take out a 3.2 V6 and fit a little diesel ????Ford do sell the Ranger Raptor in the UK. Same car as we get here; near enough a complete re-engineering of the Ranger. Engine in 2.2l twin scroll turbo diesel in place of the 3.2 V6. Ford Ranger Raptor review | Autocar
Not sure if Ford sell the Everest in the UK; basically an SUV on the Ranger platform. Probably a bit big for the average Tesco car park, but they make a nice camping car if you don’t want to go far off-road. If only they did an Everest Raptor; they would be a special vehicle. You do see a fair few lifted and upgraded Everests around here; people spending $30-40k on work.
Not sure they will though ....Landcruiser maybe an old design but for many of it's markets that's a strength ....Toyota have done nothing about replacing this vehicle (or any of the other Landcruisers). It’s a generation out of date. If and when they do decide to replace them, they are going to have to start afresh and make a similar quantum leap like Landrover has done.
New Landcruisers and Hiluxes are packed with the similar tech. I don’t think anyone makes a 4x4 in which the transmission isn’t controlled by electronics. They’ve all got buttons to engage low ratio, diff locks and various modes for different conditions.Not sure they will though ....Landcruiser maybe an old design but for many of it's markets that's a strength ....
Landcruiser and Hilux are understood and fixable by most African bush mechanics as is the INEOS vehicle (engine management aside )
New LR Defender may have loads of whizy tech but when the brain dies the vehicle dies ..... no tow start , no flash many gear auto box , no traction or terrain control ..... none of which is fixable in the bush by a guy with a welder and a selection of bits of metal..... and that would be a worry if the Germans or Japs had engineered it...... sadly Landrovers lack of skill with electrical items lingers ..... don't believe the hype ....I know too many Range Rover owners who suffer continued software and electrical problems in their never used off road... less than 2 years old cars that live in a garage every night.
I've known guy's in Kenya do a clutch in a 4.2 cruiser under a tree with a bit of rope .....and it then drove round Africa and back to the UK with no issues....they can fix big heavy basic 30 year old tech ....they can fix electrical faults in a 30 year old tech vehicle with a few bit's of wire and a light bulb as a circuit tester .....
None of the above applies to your no doubt lovely to drive new Defender .... it WILL go wrong because shit happens , mice eat wiring , looms get caught , branches and rocks get into places that some bloke in the design office never thought possible....