INEOS Grenadier 4X4

The jury is out on whether they sell like hot cakes. The number of car start ups that deliver success is tiny, even when they are bankrolled by billionaires. Ineos have no dealer network, no reputation, no brand. It’s all got to be built.

I doubt JLR are losing any sleep over this; they’ve got a sure fire global winner on their hands with the new Defender. Wouldn’t surprise me to see the Defender pushing 100000 units a year with much bigger margins than Ineos.
Defenders were not all sold off dealers floors, most were bought direct on purchase orders.
 
 
The jury is out on whether they sell like hot cakes. The number of car start ups that deliver success is tiny, even when they are bankrolled by billionaires. Ineos have no dealer network, no reputation, no brand. It’s all got to be built.

I doubt JLR are losing any sleep over this; they’ve got a sure fire global winner on their hands with the new Defender. Wouldn’t surprise me to see the Defender pushing 100000 units a year with much bigger margins than Ineos.
I'm not so sure about the new Defender as yourself as are a few of the people involved in the project who were disapointed. I knew quite a few and had a sneaky peak two years ago. Even with thw dazzle wraps on it looked like a Mini on steroids. That bit of a disguise on the rear pillar just grates with every nerve in my body style wise. It will haunt them until a proper fix is put in place.
I really don't know who will buy them. It won't be a replacement for a proper defender (no Chassis to play with) and as a Chelsea tractor a disco or Ewok will probably appeal more to the bright young mums.
 
Defenders were not all sold off dealers floors, most were bought direct on purchase orders.
Not sure “most” is true. Sure, lots were bulk orders but a lot of those were delivered through dealers and certainly serviced by them. Whatever, they’ve got to create a parts and servicing operation from scratch and they’ll need to do it in multiple markets. Fact is though, Landrover only ever sold more than 25000 Defenders in three years.

Now, I’m quite happy buying cars from niche manufacturers; I’ve bought two Lotus Elises new. But Ineos is not really in a niche; it’s up against some serious competition. I really don’t think they will take sales away from the big manufacturers; I’d need a lot of persuading to buy one of these ahead of a Landcruiser Prado. Why? I can get Toyota parts anywhere I go.
 
I'm not so sure about the new Defender as yourself as are a few of the people involved in the project who were disapointed. I knew quite a few and had a sneaky peak two years ago. Even with thw dazzle wraps on it looked like a Mini on steroids. That bit of a disguise on the rear pillar just grates with every nerve in my body style wise. It will haunt them until a proper fix is put in place.
I really don't know who will buy them. It won't be a replacement for a proper defender (no Chassis to play with) and as a Chelsea tractor a disco or Ewok will probably appeal more to the bright young mums.
I thought they had a full order book?

I think they’ll take a lot of sales off of the ageing Japanese 4x4s; Landcruisers, Pajeros etc. Everyone I’ve spoken to who has driven one off-road describe it as a game changer. Mate of mine runs LR Experience in Aus tells a story about taking standard Defenders to the Rubicon trail to the amazement of locals in their modified Jeeps.

They’ll sell 25k plus a year here in Australia.
 
Not sure “most” is true. Sure, lots were bulk orders but a lot of those were delivered through dealers and certainly serviced by them. Whatever, they’ve got to create a parts and servicing operation from scratch and they’ll need to do it in multiple markets. Fact is though, Landrover only ever sold more than 25000 Defenders in three years.

Now, I’m quite happy buying cars from niche manufacturers; I’ve bought two Lotus Elises new. But Ineos is not really in a niche; it’s up against some serious competition. I really don’t think they will take sales away from the big manufacturers; I’d need a lot of persuading to buy one of these ahead of a Landcruiser Prado. Why? I can get Toyota parts anywhere I go.

Ladder frames allow for ease of modification and specialist vehicles.
Toyotas assorted and G wagons still use ladder chassis.

No ones going to be building a stretched 'real' Defender with its rinky dink compound curved monocoque
 

philc

LE
I like the look of it, would consider 2nd Hand, reliability and comfort being two factors, sadly lacking in Defenders.
 
I thought they had a full order book?

I think they’ll take a lot of sales off of the ageing Japanese 4x4s; Landcruisers, Pajeros etc. Everyone I’ve spoken to who has driven one off-road describe it as a game changer. Mate of mine runs LR Experience in Aus tells a story about taking standard Defenders to the Rubicon trail to the amazement of locals in their modified Jeeps.

They’ll sell 25k plus a year here in Australia.
Shaun Whale does a pretty good job of showing up all the modern high tech vehicles in a nearly 30 year old "ageing" 80 series......
None of the newer monoqoue pickups or patrols have anything like the axle articulation and spend most of the time with wheels waving uselessly in the air even the ones from / used by guys that make very trick suspension ...
A chassis that can flex is the only real answer to decent axle articulation .....IFS certainly isn't
 

TotalBanker

Old-Salt
If the Grenadier is a success, i'd like to see what they can make in terms of a hatchback or saloon car. Id love to be able to buy British when it comes to cars, although reality intrudes and it would have to be affordable
 
Shaun Whale does a pretty good job of showing up all the modern high tech vehicles in a nearly 30 year old "ageing" 80 series......
None of the newer monoqoue pickups or patrols have anything like the axle articulation and spend most of the time with wheels waving uselessly in the air even the ones from / used by guys that make very trick suspension ...
A chassis that can flex is the only real answer to decent axle articulation .....IFS certainly isn't
Most current utes have a chassis; some are full chassis, a few have uni-body cabs with a ladder frame at the back. Most still have rigid axles; take the Ford Ranger. Only the Raptor has independent suspension with no axle and it’s the star off road. The Patrol is still separate chassis IIRC?

There’s near zero chassis flex on a separate chassis vehicle; it’s measured in millimetres and nothing like enough to affect axle articulation. It’s more than enough to affect on road road holding though.

Axle articulation isn’t a problem on any current Landrover as they don’t have axles! More seriously, there’s more wheel articulation on a Defender than on a Landcruiser.
 
Ranger is IFS ? limited travel ...or at least the UK version is ...

We don't get the V8 Supercharged Patrol sadly....

In fact in the UK we struggle for any decent aftermarket kit for any upgrades ....

We don't get proper Cruisers ...
.
We don't often get the big engine versions ....

Still wouldn't buy a Defender on looks alone ....and have enough experience with Land/ Range Rover electrical woes not to trust the software in any of them even if the hardware is sorted......

Would however love to fill several containers with Aussie proper made camping and off road kit , upgrades for Landcruisers etc..... we can't even buy decent seat covers like Black Duck
 

4(T)

LE
It looks like an updated Defender.


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Yes, aimed at people (like me) who want something more utilitarian than luxury.

IMHO its a little too G-Wagen in some features; I generally associate GWs with Russian Mafia and football players.

If they've made the Grenadier design "open source" for service, after market parts and conversion shops, then it may well grow a decent following.
 

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