India buys Rafale

#3
Personally, I am not surprised. India's got a fairly big fleet of Mirage 2000s (60+ ?), so buying Rafale makes sense in terms of the support package from Dassault. Also, the Indian AF are used to operating French aircraft. The way things are going with the F-35, the FAA might become used to operating French aircraft too ;-)
 
#4
No they have not bought it, yet, it is not a done deal at this time and more horse trading is yet to be done. India wants Typhoon but will dicker about pricing while threatening to buy Frog stuff, classic.
 
#5
It doesn't really bother me if they buy French or British.

What does bother me is that a country that needs so much aid (from Britain and others) is buying these things in the first place.

$10bn bill for these things? You telling me they could do with out a few and only spend $9bn, with the remainder going on their own poor? Or a space station.
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
#6
Why? He's only rated second in the ATP world rankings. They should have bought Novak instead.
 
F

fozzy

Guest
#7
So the French had more brown envelopes than the Eurofighter consortium. All those Indian "Systems Integrators" won't bribe theirselves you know!
 
#8
My shares will take a hit on the back of that news, as BAE is known here: Big Arrogant Expensive.

Maybe Pakistan will buy some, or perhaps another massive export like Austria for what, 8 aircraft? Ireland? Isle of Man? Jamaica?

What a joke, FFS.
 
#9
Strange how we give India aid, they buy French aircraft to put on their carrier and we don't have any aircraft on our carrier(s), and won't have for a long time.

If this isn't proof that we shouldn't be spending our money on aid for countries like India, I don't know what is.


Sent from my iPad using ARRSE
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
so the indians are buying a working fighter as well as working carriers. good on them I say, maybe they can retake the falklands for us for old times sake with some of their harriers :)
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
they shouldnt get damaged though should they? by all accounts 4 or 5 typhoons should be able to defeat the entire PAF while still over the indian ocean then give thier army a kicking at 40,000 feet while in ground attack mode.
 
#13
Could one of the reasons be the fact that the Rafale actually has an in-production naval option, while the EFT naval variant is just an idea in somone's mind?

Maybe I am just stating the obvious.

Just curious, how does the Rafale stack up against the EFT? From what I know/ heard, apparently the Rafale is better at ground attack roles, compared to the EFT which seems to be more of an air superiority fighter. Since the Indians already have the SU-30MKI for that aspect (which seems to be very maneuverable, hence good at dogfighting/ air superiority), the Rafale could actually be a better choice logically for them to choose (for fighting with their friendly neighbors), because it looks like a more capable multi-role aircraft.

This is just my opinion from my very limited/ possibly incorrect knowledge regarding both the fighters.

Perhaps, someone with a bit more knowledge care to elaborate?
 
#14
Strange how we give India aid, they buy French aircraft to put on their carrier and we don't have any aircraft on our carrier(s), and won't have for a long time.

If this isn't proof that we shouldn't be spending our money on aid for countries like India, I don't know what is.


Sent from my iPad using ARRSE
I think some of that money did flow back into your country. ;P

BBC News - BAE Systems signs Indian Hawk jet deal
 
#15
Oh dear. A bit of a kick in the balls for the UK defence industry and I would expect to see a few more jobs lost at BAE and throughout the supply chain as a result. So much for export led recovery, at least we are spared Cameron and Hammond crowing about 'creation of jobs'.

As I understand it, Rafale won on price, the Eurofighter was seen as a very capable jet but was too expensive.

Having lost out in the Japan competition to the F-35 things are not looking good for the Eurofighter consortium in terms of exports. I believe BAE are flogging a small number to Oman, however.
 
#16
My shares will take a hit on the back of that news, as BAE is known here: Big Arrogant Expensive.

Maybe Pakistan will buy some, or perhaps another massive export like Austria for what, 8 aircraft? Ireland? Isle of Man? Jamaica?

What a joke, FFS.
Austria took 15 Typhoons,6 of which were early production examples that were ex Luftwaffe.

There is a possibility of Oman acquiring Tiffs,but the chances have receded since that air arm expressed interest in a second batch of F-16s.

The UAE issued a Request for Proposals for the Tiff,but this is probably aimed in screwing further concessions from Avions Marcel Dassault in their proposed Rafale purchase.

The outlook for the Tiff,and with it fighter aircraft production in Britain looks increasingly bleak.
 
#17
I think some of that money did flow back into your country. ;P

BBC News - BAE Systems signs Indian Hawk jet deal
That wasn't exactly my point.

My point was that the UK and others provide India with an aid program to help the country's poor and needy. Which in itself is all well and good. At least it would be if...

a) they didn't manage to find $10 Bn on a single defense aircraft order for their carrier, as well as all the other defense orders they seem to be able to afford and we can't (Even if some are with the UK)

b) we weren't also providing half the country's IT and call center jobs while closing down our own,

c) there weren't more millionaires in India than there are in the UK,

d) they didn't seem happy to flaunt their own space agency when we have to latch on to the European one.

High time they started to either help their own poor and needy or started to send us billions in aid!
 
#18
That wasn't exactly my point.

My point was that the UK and others provide India with an aid program to help the country's poor and needy. Which in itself is all well and good. At least it would be if...

a) they didn't manage to find $10 Bn on a single defense aircraft order for their carrier, as well as all the other defense orders they seem to be able to afford and we can't (Even if some are with the UK)

b) we weren't also providing half the country's IT and call center jobs while closing down our own,

c) there weren't more millionaires in India than there are in the UK,

d) they didn't seem happy to flaunt their own space agency when we have to latch on to the European one.

High time they started to either help their own poor and needy or started to send us billions in aid!
The Indians have been on quite a shopping spree for their Air Force,this includes;

12 EH101-to be built at Yeovil.

6 C-130J-30(with a likely 6 to follow).

10 C-17A(with a likely further 6).

Approaching 300 SU-30MKI.

Navalised MiG-29s.

12 P-8I maritime partrol aircraft.

3 A-50 AEW IL-76.

at least 2 special ERJ-135.

Up to 100 Hawks.

The cost of this lot is megabucks,and India does not need the billion Quid she receives from Britain.
 
#19
The Indians have been on quite a shopping spree for their Air Force,this includes;

12 EH101-to be built at Yeovil.

6 C-130J-30(with a likely 6 to follow).

10 C-17A(with a likely further 6).

Approaching 300 SU-30MKI.

Navalised MiG-29s.

12 P-8I maritime partrol aircraft.

3 A-50 AEW IL-76.

at least 2 special ERJ-135.

Up to 100 Hawks.

The cost of this lot is megabucks,and India does not need the billion Quid she receives from Britain.
No shit! That's a lot of hardware there. Why the **** is anyone giving them aid now? And according to some lazy googling, they seem to actually give out more aid than they get. Something just doesn't add up....maybe if they their corrupt politicians didn't steal most of the aid, it might actually be usefully spent on reducing poverty and improving the living conditions.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#20
No they have not bought it, yet, it is not a done deal at this time and more horse trading is yet to be done. India wants Typhoon but will dicker about pricing while threatening to buy Frog stuff, classic.
Once Upon A Time....I worked sharing an office with the DESO desk officer for India......that role now sits in the Department of Trade and Industry (nice one Swiss Des)

If my increasingly foggy memory serves, BAe have been promoting EFA/Typhoon to India as their LCA since at least 1990.....India , as with so many other major Defence big number items, has made an artform out of spinning out major procurements ,quite simply because of the old Defence industry adage
'if you can sell your can opener into the Indian Army rat pack - you don't need any other contracts.'

....as Uncle Joe remarked << Quantity has a Quality all of it's own >>

This ongoing polite cotillion provides gainful employment and pleasant business lunches for successive droves of senior officers of the Indian Army,Navy and Air Force until they are obliged to retire.....and brings the occasional frisson to the lives of Asia-Pacific account executives who spend a good part of their careers visiting Delhi,Mumbai,Chennai and other exotic locations which we used to own.

Mostly, nothing comes of it and India buys Russian, sometimes with Israeli avionic upgrades.... (which then go U/S sitting on a sun-baked dispersal point FRYING in the direct sunlight of the Deccan......) CF SU-30 .

The last major ac purchase they made from UK was Sea Harrier, which operated from the former INS VIRAAT.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that BAe cannot afford to simply shine them on - for fear of the knock-on this would have on potential sales in other parts of the world.....where orders for EFA have been....scarce.

British Defence equipment, although often technically superior, tends to cost the end-user three times what they can pay China or former Sov U for similar platforms.

( don't get me started on US manufacturers and government subsidised Great Foreign Military Sales Scamola ....)
 

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