Incident at Castle Martin 14-06-2017

It WAS 45 Cdo, but in 1982, not long before the Falklands thing blew up. We relieved them in W.Belfast a month or two before as I recall. There were three killed, not six, and the photos of the scene and casualties were routinely shown to students on the MFC/CPO and Mortar Office/2I/C courses for many years afterwards as I recall. I certainly saw them when I did the MFC/CPO course in 1984.
The incident that I am referring to happened in 91-92.
 
Well you should, it was in the Pamphletl taught as a drill and standard practive in every mortar platoon I saw, and I saw quite a few!.


The only tricks and shortcuts I was aware of were to do with laying on,(No.2 working the Cross-levelling while No.1 did the traverse etc.) we didn't bother trying to be any faster than the Rates specified in the Pamphlet beacause it was pointless. As for scrubbing-out, no matter what rate you were firing it was ALWAYS done, it made no difference anyway when you had 2, 4, 6 or 8 mortars firing.
I'll check with the guys I am still in touch with but it does not ring a bell with me, but then it is 25 years since I have done it.

I do remember the no2 adjusting the bipod whilst the no1 got on the post though during a quick action.
 
I'll check with the guys I am still in touch with but it does not ring a bell with me, but then it is 25 years since I have done it.

I do remember the no2 adjusting the bipod whilst the no1 got on the post though during a quick action.
Scrub out every 5 rounds, that was the drill taught in 93 when I first went to mortars. It's still the drill taught now, though wether people do it or not is a different matter and a bit like why this whole discussion is happening.
 
Scrub out every 5 rounds, that was the drill taught in 93 when I first went to mortars. It's still the drill taught now, though wether people do it or not is a different matter and a bit like why this whole discussion is happening.
Fair one, it's weird that I can't remember it as I was a no2 for most of my time in Mortars, I can remember the drill for a gash round though not the timings but releasing the clamp, twisting the barrel and tipping it up (using the bipod as a fulcrum into the hands of a very nervous no2 who then walks it out past the aiming post and 'calmly' walks back. :)
 

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Fair one, it's weird that I can't remember it as I was a no2 for most of my time in Mortars, I can remember the drill for a gash round though not the timings but releasing the clamp, twisting the barrel and tipping it up (using the bipod as a fulcrum into the hands of a very nervous no2 who then walks it out past the aiming post and 'calmly' walks back. :)
Or the “tools, removing, misfired round”

And yes, quick scrub out after every 5 as standard, proper scrub out at end of mission.
 
Unsupervised blokes opening the ends of bag charges and taking explosive material out to play with, the tales of stupidity are endless.
Spaghetti Sparklers.

To this day I struggle to comprehend why it was clever to inoculate the NIGs by frightening them with that stunt on their first range day after we’d all stood there going through all the pat answers on First Parade for the edification of the RGO and his KitKat Club.:roll:

A perfect example of the normalisation of deviant behaviour as alluded to by @dingerr . I was stupid enough to question it which went well....

I wonder if it still happens, 30 years on. :frustrated:
 
Spaghetti Sparklers.

To this day I struggle to comprehend why it was clever to inoculate the NIGs by frightening them with that stunt on their first range day after we’d all stood there going through all the pat answers on First Parade for the edification of the RGO and his KitKat Club.:roll:

A perfect example of the normalisation of deviant behaviour as alluded to by @dingerr . I was stupid enough to question it which went well....

I wonder if it still happens, 30 years on. :frustrated:


Or the 10 minute lecture on how dangerous a mk8 thunderflash is before stuffing a lit one in an ammo can or cabbage for shits and giggles, thus showing us how much fun you could have with small explosives. :)
 
You'd think that the blokes would have come up with a snappy alternative name to that mouthful...
ISTR it's actually called "Tools, Removing, Jammed Round", and as such we always referre to is as the Jam-butty"!
 
The incident that I am referring to happened in 91-92.
You sure? Hard to belive Royal would have two such serious incidents in ten years? In fact, as I was stil serving in 92, and Mortaring too for that matter, I find it hard to believe that I didn't hear of a second such incident, especially with 6 dead?
 
I’m surprised no ones started arguing over Ammunition incidents yet. It’s quite boring.

It was much more fun when an ARRSEr was arguing about an incident in BATUS, when I had the file in front of me.

Or the cloud puncher who insisted Rapier FSC can’t be dual fired.
 
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Gentlemen, choose your weapons .... rapiers at dawn?
 
You sure? Hard to belive Royal would have two such serious incidents in ten years? In fact, as I was stil serving in 92, and Mortaring too for that matter, I find it hard to believe that I didn't hear of a second such incident, especially with 6 dead?
I don't find it too hard to believe: my abiding impression, born of reading two years worth of ammo/range incident reports (see my earlier post) is that some units were repeat offenders, and were commonly the kind of units that took great pride in being warry.

The thing is, that weapon drills - crew served or not - are developed and mandated as the ONLY way to do things, for good reason. The expectation thereafter is that weapon system operator(s) will practice those drills until they can do them in their sleep: because one day they may have to (cast your mind to the photo of the Mortar crew at Arnhem, banging rounds out when they're clearly half-out-of-it for want of food, drink and rest) do more or less exactly that, and at the same time as dealing with the stress of imminent sudden death.

This being the case, it ought to be abundantly obvious to the thinking soldier that it makes no sense to fanny about with well-entrenched drills at any time - least of all when the stress of operations actually increases the probability of mistakes being made, especially if you're busy turning familiar processes into unfamiliar ones.

But there's always somebody/bodies whose vanity has them convinced that they "know better", and supposedly 'warry' (bad) drills thus become standard practice in peacetime.

Inevitably this means that every once in a while, there's an almighty big bang with troops right in the middle of it.
 
Thread drift warning,heard someone once got 7 Hesh rounds in the air as first one was landing (Cent. 105mm.Might have been at Gunnery School Lulworth).I am sure all safety procedures were carried out.
 
Thread drift warning,heard someone once got 7 Hesh rounds in the air as first one was landing (Cent. 105mm.Might have been at Gunnery School Lulworth).I am sure all safety procedures were carried out.
Myth.

HESH range is 8000m, Muzzle velocity is 732m/s, giving 11 secs to get 6 more loaded and fired. Including a reload of TVEs.
 
Thread drift warning,heard someone once got 7 Hesh rounds in the air as first one was landing (Cent. 105mm.Might have been at Gunnery School Lulworth).I am sure all safety procedures were carried out.
Has to be a myth/urban legend, I heard another about a Cent105 Sabot going down range from Cat Rear at Lulworth, the minor problem being it was on HESH scale, the tale goes that it landed somewhere in France.
 

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