In Service Degrees

[Ford_Prefect]

By now I trust that everybody is aware of the new ISD programme and that we as tax-payers are funding potential and serving officer to attend civvi universities.

A great plan, until you see some of the t*ssers that have weedled their way on to the ISD programme. I can name several that are the worst possible adverts for the Army, socially inept, dull and pretty thick.

Did you know that these loons not only get full pay whilst sunning it up at birmingham, southampton, newcastle and loughborough unis, they also receive somewhere in the region of £400 per-month as a living allowance, because their accommodation doesn't come up to mess standards. You're right it doesn't. For a start they all have hot-water, heating and they don't have to share the ablutions with the block grot.

What is the point? Will 3 yrs and a degree make them better officers? Unlikely, they'll be Sqn 2ICs/AOs having swanned through uni without suffering student hardships like the rest of us! 3 yrs of decent regimental duty keeping them away from Deepcut and long-courses will make them better officers.

Thoughts?

 

[woopert]

A significant number of ISD's are at Masters level and focus on things like defence related C3, engineering, or management. It isn't a quiestion of the system getting rid of it's admin cases for 3 years on the lash as masters degrees are usually about 9-12 months long and are hard work. I know, I did one.

 

[Sir Rowley Birkin QC]

I thought ISDs had been binned. I take it I am mistaken? One of my main grumbles about the army is that this kind of thing is/was open to officers only. Is my 22 years not enough of a commitment to be worth investing in?

Officers from my trade can do the MSc in explosive ordnance engineering at RMCS. They don't even have to be graduates to get on it, providing they pass the admission test. Try applying for that if you're a member of the wrong mess and see how much one individual can be laughed at.

 

[woopert]

I thought ISDs had been binned. I take it I am mistaken? One of my main grumbles about the army is that this kind of thing is/was open to officers only. Is my 22 years not enough of a commitment to be worth investing in?

Officers from my trade can do the MSc in explosive ordnance engineering at RMCS. They don't even have to be graduates to get on it, providing they pass the admission test. Try applying for that if you're a member of the wrong mess and see how much one individual can be laughed at.

Nope. ISD's still very much in effect, often at the mid-career point. Many are now run through RMCS.

Sadly I don't think that the army is tuned into the technical knowledge that many NCO's amass during their careers. I know of on SSGt (AAC) who is currently doing an OU degree because the army didn't want to know. This most certainly needs to be progressed, especially if there are SNCO's wanting to go for an LE commission where a relevant degree might actually improve their chances of selection.

 

[Pallet]

Biggest load of B*ll*cks ever, and theres places like BATUS having to save millions on training. While some tosspot lives the life of little lord fontleroy get pissed with the students we all love to hate.

If they want a degree, pay for it likee the rest of us at night school

 

[General Melchett]

Rename this post to:

Should ISDs be open to all ranks?

 

[Speedy]

Strangly enough the few OR's I encountered during my career with degrees, some in technical areas, were shunned when they tried to advance their careers off the back of them. It seemed that the fact other ranks had degrees cannot be possible, and therefore they did not exist as intelligent, motivated and more imporantly useful to the army, and received little or no recognition.
As a civvy who has nearly completed their degree (part time and paid for by my employer) I can no longer see why the army has an aversion of finding out their most intelligent soldiers, regardless of rank, and making them more useful to the army as a whole by putting them through uni in a useful subject and giving them more career opportunities.

 

[woopert]

I can no longer see why the army has an aversion of finding out their most intelligent soldiers, regardless of rank,
.

Because there are some in the echelons of the armed forces that still think we are in Victorian times where one must know one's place and one's betters and be content with one's lot in life. The RN are amongst the worst for it.

I'm all in favour of standards, but when I'm told I can't pay my mess bill by any other method than a personal cheque (because that's what gentlemen do) I can only roll my eyes in dispair that there is still a prevailing "them and us" attitude in some quarters. I think that the least intelligent senior officers who have played the political game to middle-ranking officialdom are scared by the prospect of intelligent, motivated, and questioning young soldiers who could, having acquired some experience and learning that they didn't have earlier in life, quite easily show them up for the unimaginative and uninspiring no-marks that they are.

I'm all in favour of the principle of the division of the messes, the structure of hierarchy, but equally for ensuring that the motivated soldiers have something to aspire to if their personal ambitions go beyond the basic "get to WO1 and apply for an LE commission as a QM" and fancy doing a degree in arabic and transferring into the Int Corps for example.

 

[Speedy]

I've gathered from this forum that quite a few junior ranks had left and went to university. It seems a shame that the army has to lose these troops rather than nurture them. I've noticed also that it once someone reached SNCO rank that the urge to do something like this is replaced by the inevitable plod to 22 years and a pension.

 

[GasmaskWilf]

It would seem that the Army is missing a great recruiting/retention package by not offering certain trades degree level qualifications. The AT trade in particular would benefit from such a qualification.

 

[woopert]

It would seem that the Army is missing a great recruiting/retention package by not offering certain trades degree level qualifications. The AT trade in particular would benefit from such a qualification.

As would PetOps with a chemical engineering degree, Catering/Victualling with generic Facilities Management degrees, Transport with various operations management or general management degrees and so on.

 

[Ford_Prefect]

Lets face it they need to do something about AT retention.

 

[fatblerk]

AT retention could be helped out certainly, (ask the man sitting next to me here in the Met Police Uniform!) but surely the point to be pressed here is it's one Army and should have educational opportunities as one Army, not three

Again, separation of the messes and a rank structure is one subject, education and ability is quite another.

For those interested in Further Ed, speak to the IERO or IERO Clerk at the AEC.

But, at the request of the better half who currently clerks for an IERO, DO NOT come into the AEC and say:

"I fancy doing a course, will the Army pay?"
"Which course?
"Don't know, what have you got?"

Some aim would be necessary apparently..........