Improving ACF/TA/Regular relations.

Discussion in 'OTC and ACF' started by maninblack, Apr 6, 2004.

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  1. maninblack

    maninblack LE Book Reviewer

    Arrse is a well known font of knowledge and opinion and there are enough regualrs and TA posting here to get some discussion going.

    What would the members suggest to improve the relationship between the ACF/CCF and the Army in all its forms?
     
  2. being a reg myself, i've found a simple form of improving your standing with your hierarchy, without arrse licking.
    i teach at the local cadet unit, who are badged to the same corps as myself. regularly assist in weekends, training days, and go on their summer camp. 2 weeks, sat on my ass, drinking 80% of the time, if i was awake.
    it's not hard, it's a good laugh, and stands you in good stead for promotion, and as you said, improves relations between acf/ccf etc and the regulars.
     
  3. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    I would suggest it has to be personality driven, like so much in the army it's not what you know but who you know that gets things done.

    Too many ACF officers have high opinions of themselves and seem to think that wearing 3 pips makes then Gen Melchet! I have seen them trying to order around (regular) senior NCO's before now and have been suprised that the said individuals haven't been taken to one side for some "attitude ajustment". There are too many ACF officers who are just in it for the sake of poncing around trying to be important and making up for their inadequacies in life.

    The Adult NCO's though..........

    Most I have met have been 100% dedicated to what they do, have done time themselves and put in huge amounts of effort to make the training enjoyable and exciting for the kids involved, and so many guys I know both reg and TA have commented similar to "I'd bend over backwards for them if it wasn't for that tw@t over there...." (usually said pointing to some knobber or other who runs the troop).

    It's no coincidence that the ACF officers and NCO's who get the best support are the ones that make the effort to pick up the phone and introduce themselves to Adj's and PSAO's without any pretentions and then get down to the units and show their face. Those with a few social skills and the ability to ask for help, say please, then write to CO's thanking them for the enthusiasm and support of their officer's and staff copying in the people who did the favours in their letter are the ones who abound with kit, vehicles, chefs, ammo, and real estate.

    With recruiting a major drama right now CO's with recruiting targets to hit LOVE ACF units with kids in their late teens who would be interested in getting down to see them for a day and have the presentation team indoctrinate them with the benefits of joining up. At the end of the day it has to be mutual, if you ask with a smile and a please, say thanks in person and officially, show an interest in your cap badge and allow them to try and recruit your cadets and aren't shy at getting in the mess for their Regt Dinner and buying a few rounds then you won't go far wrong.
     
  4. This exists, but don't tar us all with the same brush. The ******* are gradually becoming extinct (IMO anyway) as the job gets harder. They lose interest in poncing around in fancy uniform when they actually have to do something to earn it.

    I've never met a hostile response from TA/Regular soldiers/units. I realise that they can't always put a great deal of time into the ACF as they have a heavy workload themselves.

    All I can say is thanks for any help you can give. Ignore the ******* and do it for the cadets.
     
  5. I find the ones (officers) who have no prior experience other than being cadets themselves are the biggest tossers!!!!!!! In my time i have come across very few who do it for the right reasons, ie the kids, but i have heard there are some about.

    As for the rest of the adult staff it is quite mixed, you get the ones who are commited and dedicated and the ones who are power crazy but don't have the balls to do anything else about it.

    Overall i enjoy what i do and ingnore the arrses about.

    I find this is the best way to go about getting the help you require
     
  6. As an officer cadet, I worked with an ACF. Most of the officer's I came across had been cadets themsevles and were extremely unprofessional, and very set in their ways. The ex-regular NCOs (and some of the ex-cadet ones) were very good, but their officer's were ****. In my experience, most were too concerned about whether or not you wore a stable belt in C95 or not, not how good at your job you were, or how much actual experience you had in the military.

    Since commissioning, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Maybe if they at least made their officer's go to Sandhurst they'd be a bit more professional.
     
  7. A bit naive idea but ok.
    Might be an idea, but try this , Remind the REGS that 1 in 4 troops on deployment is probably a TA soldier, the more enlightened will be ok, it's just the dyed-in-the-wool idiots who have a problem.
    As to the ACF, well if they really wanted to be soldiers they should put their money wher their mouth is and join up.
     
  8. True, sending them to Sandbags would be unworkable, but a ACF commissioning course at Frimley concentrating on aspects of the CC would be a start!

    Most regs in my Corps are completely happy to work with the TA, and only those who haven't worked with a reserve yet have reservations.

    Having said all that, if I turned up on camp with the ACF county I used to work with, with my section (most having spent 6months in Iraq) the first thing would still be to tell me to stop socialising with my soldiers, and telling us to take our stable belts off! Somethings, it seems, will never change!!
     
  9. IMO the relationship between Regs and TA has improved massively over the last 6 - 12 months, post TELIC, FINGAL etc, as the TA have been working alongside the Regular Army, and as we are all aware, going through the same sh!t and taking casualties - even fatalities.

    The Cadets have very little to do with this, for obvious reasons. We have some ex ACF/CCF blokes on the books, most units do - but they are no longer cadets. To be blunt, and IMO of course, there is vanishingly little connections between the Cadets and TA/Regs. They can hardly be used as BCRs, can they.

    I suppose to improve the relationship they could stop nicking TA kit: how we laughed when one of them turned up at our Drill Hall wearing C95 webbing he had nicked a couple of months ago, clearly marked with the name of the original owner. :roll:

    He was out in about 20 minutes. Young thievers....
     
  10. Improving relations will take a lot of hard work on BOTH sides having been on both side s currently sitting on the Reg one. I find that Attitude in the ACF can sometimes be a problem depends on the staff, that said it is the same in the Regs attitude is a problem there to. Also some regs seem to resent the fact that some cadets where various badges for example Para reg cap badge. before i get a reply i do know they where it with a blue beret.

    Another example is a county actually wouldn t let me in the Adults mess at night because i am a JNCO. This bothered me for two reasons. I had to socialise with the cadets which is not a good situation (against regs for a start) and the mess is for adults just because its called a WO and Officers mess doesn t matter least not in the ACF.

    I currently assist with ACF unit s where ever i am posted in uk anyway.
     
  11. That is out of order.

    as Attached Staff you should be allowed in to the mess. I know in Sussex most attached staff are treated with respect. be they L/Cpls or WO1s, after all they are probably the only nonCivies in the mess.
     
  12. some of it is down to petty empire building and personal fiefdom of the higher echelons.CEOs, Majors, colonels etc
    i usually stay out of their way and just get on with things
    you will find most of us NCOs and some officers are usually normal and down to earth
     
  13. Tell the TA to stop interfering with the kids.
     
  14. I have assisted on cadet camps 3 times, and I enjoyed everyone one. I would even go so far as saying that 1 camp was two of the most enjoyable weeks I have spent in uniform.

    That was partly due to the company I had from my own unit, and the degree of freedom and trust we were given by the instructors of the coy we were placed with. They gave us free reign over the cadets fieldcraft instruction, and the cadets were thrilled with the excercises we put on for them. We also taught the instructors what we could, many of whom were ex reg but a little out of date in their methods.

    This year was a different story. We spent most of the time stagging on, not even on the main gate, but incase a parent phoned. We took 2 calls in 2 weeks. We played enemy a few times, and spent the rest of the camp drinking and doing our own thing. We did manage to get the ranges for a couple of days and we took the cadets on lsw and iw. The cadets really enjoyed the packages we ran, but barring a few of the instructors we came up against what we like to call the " it's my train set mentality"

    We continually offered our services in running or assisting in the fieldcraft package, which between the 4 coys ran pretty much continuosly for the camp. It was made quite plane to us by some senior ranks that our help was not wanted, although they were more than happy to take our lsws off our hands. Now I respect the fact that many instructors are ex reg or reserve, but to me the simple fact is that our group (of regs, ex regs, and reserves) had gone to the camp to share our expirience, and instead we were basically told to keep out the way and sit by the phone.


    I put this down to the fact that a few key members in battalion only get this chance once a year, and for those who may once have commanded a regular company it would seem reasonable to expect them to want to maintain command and control. However, to me and my collegues, it was insulting to say the least. Some of the younger lads had used up their holiday to attend the camp, and the seniors had spent a lot of time in preperation.

    I'm sorry for all the babble but my point is this-

    to increase the bond between the army and acf the acf must respect that, as they themselves are doing, the attatched personnel are giving up time to help them and are eager to help out and impart as much knowledge as possible. inviting reg officers and senior ranks to acf mess dos and vice versa is also a good way for those at the top to make the ties, and at the end of the day it is a benefit for everyone. The cadets get more out of it, the instructors can pick somthing new up, and the attatched personnel get a rewarding two weeks

    sorry for the essay
     
  15. come_to_arrest_the _zulus

    no worries about the length , i wish we had somebody like you round our end, most TA/egs can be too busy and rarely come round. the LSW/IW sessions is something we can be short of, i would also welcome oportunities to build up my knowledge by spending time with Regs/TA whch will benefit the cadets and myself.
    i don't know if you are still serving or not. some regs go on to join the cadets full time as part of the CTT and my CTT team were good and very approachable.