Immoderate moderation

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
Bokkatankie is doing a well-deserved spell in the cooler for calling Alsacien a **** in one of the serious forums. He raised an issue which belonged here but, because of his appointment with Field Punishment Number One and a general loss of privileges, he had to post it in the NAAFI (for which he was seriously flamed).

He wrote:

"I have just been banned by Alsacian for disagreing with him over the closing of a thread, you cannot see the disagreement because he deleted all. Read his last post and see where I and a few others, also banned?, are coming from."

The link to the NAAFI thread is:
http://www.arrse.co.uk/naafi-bar/182299-alsacien-mod-gone-wrong-what.html

most of the arguments are in there but, because it's the NAAFI, it's lumped in with the usual boggling posts beginning 'I haven't read the thread but...' and those with self-esteem issues trying to pick the right team.

The thread raises points on both sides and it seems reasonable to be able to discuss it in the forum where it properly belongs and where it can be reasonably discussed.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
So, what is it that you're saying then?
I've already said it in the thread and been asked to take it to PMs, which I have.

Personally, I think Alsacien mis-judged and his ultra-aggressive posting style as an active participator in the thread always made it likely that he would. If Mods start deleting counter-arguments (for which he apologised) and then arbitrarily closing threads on specious grounds which support their view but not that of most of the other participants, it's not going to maintain a 'gold standard' round the Serious Section that we're always told is so important. The NAAFI is not the place for that discussion.
 
#4
Clicked on the link to see what all the fuss is about and got this:

Sinner251, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
 
#5
Agreed. But it's a bit difficult sometimes to change your style, chameleon-like from one forum to another. I know, I've done it myself: one minute you're in the NCA forum, the next in the NAAF and then back again. Sometimes the 'idiom' follows you and you end up posting a picture of a naked man in the intelligence cell.

The site does what it says on the tin and works well without beer goggles, imho. I always check the timings of posts to judge how smashed the poster might be.

But whatever. It's a shame to ROP posters unless they go well beyond the curtains and put the light on while playing with their bellends. The best thing about Arrse is that it's lightly modded and you can pretty much say what you want. Christ, you only have to look back at the threads to see that.

The best moderation comes from the users who will, very entertainingly shoot down a throb post in seconds.

Personally I'd prefer to leave it to other posters to tell a 'sinner' to **** off than have a mod do it for me. It's much more fun.

And Arrse is, surprisingly, a repository of superb writing, in my opinion. And some of the best wit comes from a poster flaming a miscreant. Would be a shame to lose that.
 
#8
Clicked on the link to see what all the fuss is about and got this:

Sinner251, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Hilarious

It didn't take Alsacian long, I took copies of a few posts on that thread this morning as I though this might happen.


Here's a few with my responses;

Originally Posted by bokkatankie

I have just been banned by Alsacian for disagreing with him over the closing of a thread, you cannot see the disagreement because he deleted all. Read his last post and see where I and a few others, also banned?, are coming from.

He banned me for suggesting that his attitude to posters who disagreed with his position was partisan in the extreme, as was his denigration of any published evidence, FT WSJ, etc., as being part of an Anglo Saxon media conspiracy against the Euro. He also seems to be under the firm impression that he is the only arrse user who is active in finance.



He should not be a mod he's a third rate hack, an economics Walt who has blagged some mod power which he is abusing because he has never run anything before. His boasts of secret knowledge and conversations with 'people who matter' is a comedy of insecurity.


Until the owners bin him realising the damage he is doing to the arrse brand, you should study the positions he takes and short them, the only thing he does well is Brussels group think.


I didn't even use any cuss words.

Originally Posted by Wordsmith View Post

bokkatankie's now removed post said that Alsacien should either moderate the thread or push his own agenda on it - not both. That's a point of view I agree with.


I have no objection to him removing posts that contravene the rules. Equally I have no objection to him espousing his point of view - which is diametrically opposed to mine. I just think the two activities shouldn't be mixed - particularly as Alsacien has strong views on matters economic. You should either be a referee or a player...

And therein is the nub of the problem - who moderates the moderators?


Wordsmith
I agree 100% but he seems to be from the Soviet school of debate, in the few years I have spent on arrse I have never before seen a mod who abuses his power to attempt to shore up his personal positions (not arrses). By and large the arrse mods are fine, being rebuked always rankles but in the ligh of day it can be seen to be justfied and thus accepted, with Alsacien that is just not the case, he should not be a mod.

"He should not be a mod he's a third rate hack, an economics Walt who has blagged some mod power which he is abusing because he has never run anything before."


I am amazed that it has taken folk so long to realize just what they are dealing with.
Sad & Sick is my opinion of him and has been since I first christened him the Rabid Dog a year or two ago.


john


Suppose this is Bye Bye to Arrse.
 
#9
Flag the mod to the Co's if you disagree rather then arguing, that way you don't scribble on the threads and the Co's have a nice headcount of dodgy, or not, decisions.
I've been banned for a similar choice of username by a moderator elswhere.
 
#10
GoodCO has had a look at Alsacians profile, so I suspect they are dealing with it. To be honest, I think its all a fuss over very little. A mountain out of a molehill etc etc
 
#12
I've mentioned this before, but it would be a crying shame if Arrse, with it's "brand" as AJ puts it (over egging the pud as usual) makes the mods more nervous of some of the content. You don't want to turn the Sex Pistols into Coldplay.

A lot of people have stopped posting; geniuses all and I miss their wisdom, their humour and their prejudices. Oh and their spite as well. There's still a lot of good stuff, though, so I don't want to get on the Arrsehasgonedownhilloutragebus. It hasn't, but it has changed a bit, imho.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
As a general comment, I think the suggestion that moderators who post actively should have two logins - one for moderating and one for posting - is a good one.

Then I could happily argue with with Alsacien(A) while knowing if Alsacien(B) posted, I'd transcended one of the forum rules and ought to start behaving forthwith.

The problem in the Financial Apocalypse thread was you never knew whether you were dealing with the opinionated poster or the moderator - there was a distinct blurring of the two roles.

Wordsmith
 
#14
As a general comment, I think the suggestion that moderators who post actively should have two logins - one for moderating and one for posting - is a good one.

Then I could happily argue with with Alsacien(A) while knowing if Alsacien(B) posted, I'd transcended one of the forum rules and ought to start behaving forthwith.

The problem in the Financial Apocalypse thread was you never knew whether you were dealing with the opinionated poster or the moderator - there was a distinct blurring of the two roles.

Wordsmith

Yes, but would another login stop a rogue MOD taking action over someone who upset him/her?
 
#15
#17
In fairness and since the NAAFI thread is closed it should be pointed out that Bokka's RoPs were for profanity in the serious forum.

We are all, I'm sure, capable of profanity but there is a proper place for it and that is not on the serious discussion boards. Bokka's punishment was for what he called Alsacien not for disagreeing with him. My experience of Alsacien is that he doesn't suffer fools gladly (and I consider myself severely limited in economics) but that if you ask him to explain himself rather than just mock or naysay then generally he will.

I'm sure also that when this thread comes to or is brought to his attention that he will consider his style and make such adjustments as he or the COs think appropriate. The truth is that the serious bits do need careful modding because it's where we go to have serious discussions, a little humour is permitted sure but not wholesale crayoning. I don't mind being told I'm wrong and I don't mind being told why but I do find it tedious when you get posters who clearly have no interest in the subject matter but just want a bit of attention.

My inclination is to support mods, not blindly and not to be on the right team. I do so because I believe they give up their time to make this a better site for all of us. Like us they can have a hard day and can be less tolerant than if they had just had a day off. I have from time to time fallen foul of mods and, where that has happened, I have attempted to sort matters out by PM rather than publicly. They have all responded in a positive manner even when I am aware that I have probably annoyed them personally I have had courteous responses and have sorted things out amicably, not always to my satisfaction but that is life.

Personally I feel we should be talking in more general terms and about modding style for each forum not in comparing styles between mods, that smacks of a witch hunt and is not going to be productive. We should especially not be commenting on single events as everyone is entitled to a hiatus or style from time to time.
 
#18
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
To render it correctly: Who will guard the guards themselves?

To answer this question I wonder whether, in all seriousness, a Supreme Appeals panel consisting of 5 'sensible' arrsers selected from a pool could be employed to investigate bannings or ROPs?

If the ARRSER has his ban unheld by his peers then he ought to stop frigging moaning - it would also put a check on overly dictotorial MODing...
 
#19
Unfortunately I cannot give Markintime's post a like from this computer, but it definitely deserves one. His assesment of the matter is very accurate and appropriate.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top