Immagration Policy - What should it be.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by BuggerAll, May 14, 2010.

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  1. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    I know I'm opening a can o' worms here but its one of the areas of contention between the Libs and the Cons.

    I thought the Libs made a good point when they said the current system is broke we need to deal with that.

    I'm not particularly enamored of a cap on numbers a la Tories.

    I have three models for Immigration but before I get to them I'd there are some base lines I would apply first.

    No newcomer to the country is entitled to anything until they become a citizen. Whether that is housing, welfare, medical care. (I might make an exception for education). Some one importing a foreign spouse could not use them as a reason to get social housing of increased benefits.

    Any foreigner who behaves in a way that is not compatible with their status as a guest in this country would have to leave. That would include not paying tax, committing criminal offences and anti-social behavior.

    There is no obligation to become a subject but unless you do so you have no call on the state. A prospective Brit would need to be here for 5 years and would need to demonstrate integration into British society, including the ability to communicate in English. This requirement would extend to the whole family. The wearing of masks, forced marriages, would demonstrate a lack of integration.

    As a nation while we continue to accommodate other peoples needs we get rid of a lot of the multi-cultural dogma. There will be no translation services, no signs in the social security office in Gujarati and so on. Schools will teach British history in English.

    A naturalised subject would need to continue to demonstrate their integration. Picking up you passport on Monday and sending your daughter to Sudan to be circumcised on Tuesday would result in your nationality being stripped on Wednesday and you being deported on Thursday.

    My 3 models.

    1. Come one come all. No limits except as outlined above.

    2. Reciprocal arrangements. If their country lets us in we let them in.

    3. Work permits, self supporting persons only. Anyone wishing to come to the UK must apply for a work permit which would apply to a specific job. Any employer wishing to bring in a foreigner must demonstrate that he cannot hire locally. If the employment ceases the person would be expected to leave unless they can get another permit.

    Refugees. Genuine refugees would be welcome but again they would get very little - charities would be expected to look after them. They would be expected to leave at the earliest opportunity.

    What do we do with existing Illegals. In models 1 and 2 I'd let them stay as long as they start paying tax and working towards citizenship. in model 3 I'd give them a year to apply for a work permit and then deport them.

    EU citizens. I think we should leave the EU but that's a different argument, so dealing with what we have. We need to renegotiate so that while EU citizens have the freedom to travel here and work without restriction they get no benefits and can be thrown out if they don't behave - to be fair to the EU its not far off what we have at the moment, which is why a lot of the Poles have gone.
  2. First and foremost, the government need to establish exactly how many people are here, illegally or otherwise, before they can begin to rectify the problem. capping is rendered useless until we have a figure to start with.
    I don't know how, what with the current financial situation, but resources need to be made available to the Police and HM Customs(Border Control), in order to get on top of this.
  3. Sounds about right, with the proviso that anyone coming in has to produce evidence that they will not be a cost to the state, that would mean having sufficient funds to live on, pay for accomodation, education etc, some form of APPROVED medical insurance to pay for health care, in the case of someone coming to fill a specific job this could be GUARANTEED BY THE EMPLOYER!

    But I would have a moratorium on any new immigration until the illegals are removed and the current batch have adopted the new system! Then & only then allow limited numbers in to fulfill jobs that cannot be fulfilled by British workers!
    This would have the effect that the additional costs of employing an immigrant would encourage the employers to look for indiginous labour! The savings on the exchequer would be condsiderable further helping reduce our defecit!
  4. As I have said before, we do not need to tighten up on immigration, we just need to stop being such a such a soft touch. Specifically:

    Slash benefits in general and non-contributory benefits in particular. This will stop people coming here for the benefits and force our home grown layabouts to get jobs, cutting down in people coming here to work.

    Use the money saved to slash taxes against legal employment. This will destroy the black economy, which is where the illegal immigrants work.

    Turn our legal system back into a justice system. This will stop criminals coming here and probably cause many of our home grown ones to emigrate.

    All of these are things we should do anyway, eliminating the problems with immigration is just a useful side effect.
  5. I would have thought it common sense. Entry requirements would be:

    1. Self supporting - ie can prove a minimum wealth they will bring with them (for example £400,000).
    2. Already have a job offered that no person currently unemployed in UK can fill

    With the proviso in both cases that until a naturlised citizen (10 years), neither they, nor their family are entitled to claim any benefits

    Oh yeah, and a grasp of the English language would be good.
  6. My bold: So your saying that the Tories proposal of a proper border police force is a non-starter :?

    the UKBA are constantly frustrated at having to release 'AS' due to disgraceful way the former Government left it years too late to implement a decent system :x

    I agree that the benefits/welfare system should have a radical overhaul in order that the UK is'nt seen as easy rich pickings of abusing the welfare system which it is currently now & in which the tories have proposed anyway.
  7. If the Government knew how many were here illegally that would solve half the problem as they could be booted out.

    A points system would work. It does for other countries and means the country can take on foreign labour skills as required, altering the points awarded for skills based on employment shortages in short supply at the time.
  8. First deport anyone that cannot spell....
  9. I would not quite say “non-starter” the existing border laws should be enforced. However, I suspect the current organisations could do that if we implement my other suggestions.
  10. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    1. All new arrivals to be biometric'd up to the wazzoo, no matter where they come from or why.

    2. Full medical on entry. Those that have fatal, uncurable or infectious diseases, chucked back out.

    3. All given strict 'licence' conditions which they must abide by to remain in this country. Simple one that - abide by the law, stay away from extremism and extremist groups. Failure to abide by such rules means immediate revocation of permit to stay, and irrespective of Human Rights lawyers, sent back to place of origin.

    4. Economic migrants must have plenty of wedge, skills or other assets that are useful to this country.

    5. Cap on those escaping lousy home countries. No indefinate leave to remain. Merely leave until such times as home country becomes nicer (by our definition). Can be redefined to indefinate leave or citizenship if clause 6 is met.

    6. Those wishing to apply for citizenship must have very good reason, must demonstrate good links and pass a vigorous testing process. Citizenship should not be treated as a right, but as one of the highest honours we can bestow, and must be earned. The applicants must be worthy of becoming a part of one of the greatest civilisations this world has ever seen.

    7. Those wishing to marry non-citizens of this country can do so, but their spouses must pass all the criteria for entry.
  11. That meens evryoun alredie has to leaf

    First of all get a grip of all the ones that are here illegally.

    Use the points sytem to get the people in that are needed only.

    The ones that are allowed to come in have to speak the language.

    We are a tolerant society, unless you are a Jock, so welcome those that do come in with open arms.
  12. I agree. It beggars belief that we've never adopted and modified the Australian model. They don't seem too fussed about rubbing people up the wrong way. Notwithstanding, the EU has it's odious fingers in how we deal with immigration. I think the authorities know where to find a majority of the illegals, I just think they've lacked the political will to do something about them. I hope this changes.
  13. Now don't mistake me for a Labour supporter, but didn't they latterly set up a similar system.

    You can take me for a Lib Dem supporter when I ask if it might not be a bad thing to know how many immigrants are leaving the country after their stay?
  14. I'd like to see a mixture of various countries here,

    Dutch- asylum seekers have their claims processed in 10 days IIRC if not successful they are shipped back. during this period held in a detention centre until processed.

    Swedish no state benefits until the person can speak the lingo part of the test includes reading newspapers. I'd also add that they have to read up on our customs and our beliefs.

    Aus-Points system

    Also convicted of major/capitol/race/hate crime instant deportation 3 strike rule and your out for minor crime.

    Health tourists caught seize any capitol they have in the UK mostly rich africans sure the proceeds of crime/terrorism acts could be modified to cover it.

    Immigrants to be accessed on a bi-yearly for a 10year period to ensure they are integrating into the local community (not the immigrants own) throw in further progress tests to ensure they are still learning English etc also look at what work they have been doing if on benefits over a set period during time line then give them a warning that state benefits will be stopped for 6 months if nothing afterwards bye bye

    Arrive off a plane with no passport looking for asylum then you wont be processed and straight on the next flight back.

    No bringing extended family members over unless you will pay for their upkeep no free health care/benefits

    End of arranged marriage applications
  15. Non-starter. You're effectively potentially barring them from marrying whoever they want to marry. All you have to do instead is be very very very hot on how pukka the marriage is when the spouse asks for citizenship. Marriage in relation to citizenship is always going to be a square hole for round pegs until we have mind-readers.