Imagine!!!! being a Christian.

Would you

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#1
Imagine if you will: You move to Malaysia (nice beaches, great tea) and find yourself in a very tolerant democratic country where you are bringing up your kids. Your business is going well. Sunny, you’d say. Very sunny... life seems good. The state religion is Islam, but you wouldn’t know it; Your kids mates are Buddhists, Taoists and Muslims. Then one day some Christian terrorist group drops a 747 into Mecca, some fundamentalist priests come across spouting anti-Islam rhetoric, your children start going to school wearing outsized crucifixes and coming home with black eyes… and you can’t look at a paper without seeing something about Christians and their intolerance. But you’re not intolerant, or weren’t (the kids black eyes still bite). But even the Council of Christians who were supposed to smooth things out for normal blokes like you can’t help loving the attention… which only seems to wind up the population. Some of your ex-pat mates have gone nuts, but the majority of you are sick of it. “Christians” are always in the papers and you wish it’d stop. A brick goes through your shop window. You’re losing trade and you can feel the way people look at you. This is your home but it doesn't feel that way any more.

You’ve got to feel sorry for the average Muslim bloke haven’t you? Why is it always the “few” who muck it up for everyone else?
 
#3
I think the problem is that there no longer is, to all intents and purposes, an 'average Muslim bloke' or blokeess. The ease with which large scale demos spring up for events we do not understand, the Muslim Brotherhood that the gobment associated itself and the media-driven attention to 'scary' tales means that Muslim now, for the voiciferous, means 'Bogey Man'
 
#4
Agreed with that.

Last night, BBC news chick said in her summary that the Muslim chick is about to be sacked for not removing her veil (hijab?!) while men were around.

That was not the case- was it (just to clarify). I know that Im re-hashing old truths here, but the Media has a lot to answer for.

Mis-representing has done a lot of damage I think- the 'Bogey man' has indeed been unleashed.
 
#6
Not just the media but the legal system too

GM tv had the teaching asistant on with her solicitor.

She didnot present a good case for her actions and was digging a big pit. For balance they also interviewed a female muslim fashion writer.

The writer put a point to the teacher and she started to answer/debate why she inisted on the veil.

Good I thought. A debate.
Ha!

The white solicitor said to her and I paraphrase it
"No I will speak for you. This is about discrimination."

End of debate

Now why? Surely we need to discuss this issue?
Here is the legal bod actively preventing an exchange of views.

Afraid she will harm his presentation and thus loose him dosh?
 
#7
Addressing the original point,

I think you've left out being pressured by your "co-religionists" (is that an awkward term or what?) to join the fray.

I mean, all sides would be exerting some level of pressure on you. Some to condemn the terrorists, others to get your support for the cause and sooner or later some pokey journalist to give an opinion.

But such is human nature. I doubt that most of us want a war with anyone, much less having our kiddies getting a thrashing merely for having been born to the flavor of the month church. Unfortunately that leaves us to the whims of those with an axe to grind. It also leaves everyone in the position of being angry at a group and having little recourse to fixing the problem.

I know an Iraqi who owns a gas station/deli. His name is Samir. He makes some of the best fallafals you've ever tasted and his chicken schwarma is no slouch either. He has a rather large regular customer base whom he knows by name and always has a joke. In short, he's quite well liked. But I can imagine in the event of another terrorist attack that he would be under suspicion. I myself have wondered in the years after 9/11 (or 11/9 if you prefer) what his feelings are about Islam and our concurrent wars. I really like the guy but I still have to wonder.
 
#8
Except it's not the Christians doing the killing all over the world is it? It's the religion of peace, founded by an epileptic paedophile and spread by violence.

What was it the Pakistani foreign minister said? "Anyone who accuses Islam of being violent should be killed" or words to that effect.

Monty Python couldn't have written a better sketch!
 
#9
Er... While agreeing that it is good to look at things from the other point of view...

My kids would have been educated in the local schools, would have been raised in the local culture, and while I wouldn't have neglected their British roots, they would be bona fide Malaysian citizens.

They wouldn't have turned up at school aged seven, unable to speak a word of the local lingo, neither they or their parents would have set up a barrier between themselves and the population at large by affecting traditional British dress and customs and living a completely parallel existence without any any real contact with the native population.

Nor when Hollywood brought out some film such as "Last temptation of Christ" would we have been involved with, or condoned rioting, chucking missiles at the local police, or actively inciting the murder of the film director. We certainly wouldn't have descended on some Malaysian town or village demanding our own Christian centre, and getting involved in running street battles with the locals to prove our point!

Easy really!

SLR
 
#10
Warrior_Poet said:
Except it's not the Christians doing the killing all over the world is it? It's the religion of peace, founded by an epileptic paedophile and spread by violence.

What was it the Pakistani foreign minister said? "Anyone who accuses Islam of being violent should be killed" or words to that effect.

Monty Python couldn't have written a better sketch!
Life of Brian?
 
#11
Why is it we have no Muslims on ARRSE ? AFAIK anyway!

i don't recall an answer or view point to a rhetorical question expressed when subjected to his/her social conditioning?
 
#12
Sorry.........but thi is too much of an intellectual conversation for me...I had every intension of replying with a sensible view on todays crazy world but my heard now hurts after reading the above posts....... :(
 
#13
SelfLoadingRifle said:
Er... While agreeing that it is good to look at things from the other point of view...

My kids would have been educated in the local schools, would have been raised in the local culture, and while I wouldn't have neglected their British roots, they would be bona fide Malaysian citizens.

They wouldn't have turned up at school aged seven, unable to speak a word of the local lingo, neither they or their parents would have set up a barrier between themselves and the population at large by affecting traditional British dress and customs and living a completely parallel existence without any any real contact with the native population.

Nor when Hollywood brought out some film such as "Last temptation of Christ" would we have been involved with, or condoned rioting, chucking missiles at the local police, or actively inciting the murder of the film director. We certainly wouldn't have descended on some Malaysian town or village demanding our own Christian centre, and getting involved in running street battles with the locals to prove our point!

Easy really!

SLR
Good on you SLR... I'm not saying you would... but it's possible that some bulldogs (or whatever) might take it upon themselves to do it in your name.

As for "Hollywood", read "Bollywood" or "Abdulahwood"... But as an aside, I actually remember rioting and stone chucking for the opening of a Ben Hur'y like film in London 20 years ago... Why? because 15 horses got injured during filming. I don't put anything past anyone - especially any minority who use these tactics in order to be heard, and end up sounding like they represent me - or those who just like a fight.
 
#14
Good post and a nice way to counter-balance any rabid anti-Islam feeling (though I'm not so sure Isalm at present has anything to offer society other than some art and science stuff 500 years or more ago).

But Malaysia is a fortuitous country to have chosen, as my girlfriend is Chinese-Malay. Under Islam, non-believers are subject to an extra tax; I believe in malaysia this is imposed on property purchases or something and is quite steep. I don't see the same in Christian countries; If a non-Muslim marries a Muslim, they have to change there name to (I think) Abdul or something.

And just another thing on Islam, a big difference, Islam has the goal of converting the World to Islam. How many of you have been to countries on your travels where ME countries will provide aid, so long as the women wear veils and the men grow beards. The schools will obviously be run on Islamic lines. A simple enough request but can you imagine Western aid being subjected to teh same strictures, or teh furore if it was?
 
#15
admag said:
Why is it we have no Muslims on ARRSE ?
there are actually a fair few on ARRSE many of whom are serving.
 
#16
archer said:
GM tv had the teaching asistant on with her solicitor.

She didnot present a good case for her actions and was digging a big pit. For balance they also interviewed a female muslim fashion writer.

The writer put a point to the teacher and she started to answer/debate why she inisted on the veil.

Good I thought. A debate.
Ha!

The white solicitor said to her and I paraphrase it
"No I will speak for you. This is about discrimination."

End of debate

Now why? Surely we need to discuss this issue?
Here is the legal bod actively preventing an exchange of views.

Afraid she will harm his presentation and thus loose him dosh?
I saw that interview as well and it was my first time at hearing and seeing her on the tv. Regardless of whether I think she's wrong or right, the impression it left on me was the same as yours. By verbally jumping on each question put to her and not answering or answering it properly by ranting on a different tangent, she did herself no favours at all. It was hard to think that this was a teaching asst that couldn't listen to the question put to her in clear and patient manner.

I didn't think the solicitor was trying to prevent her speaking because he did not want her to state her views, I thought he was trying to stop her from looking even more of an overreacting idiot.
 
#17
To take issue with SLR. What you say may be true of you personaly but is far from the truth when it comes to expatriate Brits in my corner of the world.
As far as the Brits go this is more the form:
Their the kids go to the local British School, (UK National Curriculum), they seldom bother to speak the local lingo, quite often dress in a way that offends the local population, get drunk in public (Muslim country here), are patronising, rude and condescending, to locals and other expatriate communities alike, constantly whinge about the heat, the shops, the driving, the locals and so on. They socialise amongst themselves in their own clubs and tend to cluster together in their own neighbourhoods.

Does any of this sound familiar because I can assure you that is the pattern that I have experienced in more places than here.

They don't however fly airplanes into buildings, burn US flags, or explode in the market place.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#18
jimminy_cricket said:
But Malaysia is a fortuitous country to have chosen, as my girlfriend is Chinese-Malay. Under Islam, non-believers are subject to an extra tax; I believe in malaysia this is imposed on property purchases or something and is quite steep. I don't see the same in Christian countries; If a non-Muslim marries a Muslim, they have to change there name to (I think) Abdul or something.
But Malaysia has come up with a formula that tries to cope with the Malay Muslim "owners" of the country and the Chinese and Indian "immigrant" populations. Yes, non Muslims (read Chinese and Indians) pay more taxes and Malay businesses get preferential regimes, but Malays are subject to Mulsim laws that do not and are not applied to non-Muslims. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

The other reality is that senior posts in the military are restricted to Malays and Chinese or Indian Malaysians need not apply. Kind of career limiting if you sign up for the army knowing you can never make Colonel?
 
#19
Warrior_Poet said:
Except it's not the Christians doing the killing all over the world is it? It's the religion of peace, founded by an epileptic paedophile and spread by violence.

What was it the Pakistani foreign minister said? "Anyone who accuses Islam of being violent should be killed" or words to that effect.

Monty Python couldn't have written a better sketch!

Err, I seem to remember that 'good Christian folk' have killed a few in the past. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, David Coresh and his Branch Davidians, PIRA. Even the KKK spout that they are defending their Anglo Saxon/Christian ways as an excuse.

My point is not to try and make excuses for anyone or justify anything, simply to point out nutters come from all walks of life, backgrounds and religions. This is not the first 'jihad' and it won't be the last.

I think we all know most people, Muslims, Christians, Jews, whatever, simply want to live in peace and bring up their families in safety and security. If we let the few fanatics or rogue states (and the press) influence us and marginalise all Muslims we play into the fanatics hands and help them drive a wedge between our communties.

Nuff said, I'm off to hug a tree.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
Zulu_w said:
To take issue with SLR. What you say may be true of you personaly but is far from the truth when it comes to expatriate Brits in my corner of the world.
As far as the Brits go this is more the form:
Their the kids go to the local British School, (UK National Curriculum), they seldom bother to speak the local lingo, quite often dress in a way that offends the local population, get drunk in public (Muslim country here), are patronising, rude and condescending, to locals and other expatriate communities alike, constantly whinge about the heat, the shops, the driving, the locals and so on. They socialise amongst themselves in their own clubs and tend to cluster together in their own neighbourhoods.
Are they working there on short term contracts with a view to returning to the UK or are they immigrants to settle? There is a difference that affects behaviour. You don't send your children to the local school to be educated in the local language if they're going to be back at a school in the UK 3 years later
 

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