Im a civilian, get me outta here!

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by Mr Benn, Jun 15, 2006.

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  1. Who the hell writes this stuff?

    My emphasis.

    This is great news, I think. Next time anyone tries to subject a TA soldier to military law and discipline, a laptop with that webpage displayed on it should be waved in their face. "I'm a civvie, me."

    So tell me, lawyers: are TA soldiers deployed on operations are in fact gun-toting civilians?

    My emphasis. Great news for those on ops. After they have done, say, a 20-hour week they should down guns sit on their hands. Or their arrses, obviously.
  2. one army?? yea right, so if we're civvies, then surely we are walts for waering the uniform? how can we be civvies, with an army number and army pay, and MOD 90's? maybe my next door neighbour, 23 stone from iran has them aswell? another kick in the teeth
  3. I was always under the impression that we were considered civilian unless deployed.
  4. jeez guys, relax it is a description for wannabe TA guys and gals. does it matter that much that you are not 24/7 in uniform, unless on ops. if you are not deployed what do you do?

    if it does matter that much to you,maybe you should join the regulars
  5. Point is c-c that we know what we are and what we do. You are right that this copy is directed at potential recruits; the worry is that it is factually inaccurate and potentially misleading. That it has been approved and posted on 'our own' website by national recruiters is frustrating .
  6. what is misleading about it? i am not on a baiting trip or anything like that.

    taken from the site regular or TA
    what is actually wrong with the descriptions?
  7. The Army Recruiting Plan - hot off the press - is well worth a read if you can get hold of it. Sadly these websites are slightly outdated and perhaps patronising, but they are aimed at the prospective recruit. Recruiting doctrine has now embraced the One Army Recruiting methodology fully and to me it is now quite clear how we are to recruit.

    We are now all in the business of recruiting for the Army first and foremost, irrespective of a full or part time career. The TA and Regular tags will take a long time to lose, but the whole proposition is now undergoing rapid change, brought about by the environment. You could argue that needs must when the Devil drives...

    We are all in this together. We will be expected to face the same challenges and some different ones according to our circumstances. That's the way the world turns. The point is there is a need to step away from the semantics and understand this really is one army because ultimately we do now live, work, fight (and only sometimes God help us, die) side by side, more than just occasionally.
  8. It's what you get when you tie yourself in knots trying not to say
  9. P_E is right.

    For legal reasons, the MoD want to maintain and continually enforce their (in my view inaccurate) description of TA soliders as civilians employed as casual workers. Anything that smacks of part-time employment gets stamped on.

    Hence the inaccuracy. What other explanation could there be for not simply stating "The Regular Army is a force of full-time professional soldiers. The TA is a reserve force of part-time soldiers."?
  10. I concur. The only other reason I can think of is that the 'Regular' who wrote the description in the first place was a 'Regular with a chip on his/her shoulder about the TA', but that couldn't be right, could it? Unfortunately, by the end of your suggestion you are implying by ommision that the TA are not professional, and also that we constitute a 'reserve', which surely can't be the case as we're being used and you don't utilise your reserve until... hang on, a minute.
  11. There's no implication of non-professionalism, in the sense of incompetence, dear boy.

    Let's be honest, here. We are not "professional" soldiers - we are merely gifted amateurs.

    I'm in it for the love.
  12. I joined for the love but then I was caught!

    Fact is the TA is a difficult beast to describe if you're in it, let alone if you're an advertising exec who has had it explained to you by a regular with no practical experience of it.

    To the government we're a cheap infill for it's expeditionary foreign policy; to the regular army we are anything from jumped up walts to good chaps who make up the numbers. To our acquaintances the TA is a mysterious fascinating thing which they yearn to hear us tell more stories about. To ourselves it is part job, part hobby, part obsession, mainly habit. Trying to explain all that to someone who expresses an interest and still making it sound appealing is an art.

    If someone wants a casual job to make money try gardening, cleaning or Kleeneze, but it won't be fun, challenging or exciting. If you want a hobby take up golf, but you won't get paid or get a funky costume. And in neither case will you be sent to a war zone. The TA is unique, a separate case. It's hard to describe but the job done on the website is, arguably, shite.
  13. Well said, pretty much sums up the TA from above, within and from the outside!

    That said I was under the impression, no doubt misguided or what ever, that when on duty, ie when training on TA time, TA troops are governed, subject to and punishable by Military Law, and when off duty they go back to being civvies.
    So yeah its a hard one, part time proffessionals and civvies with guns are all different ways of defining the TA, but surely just a simple name change ( as discussed on the other thread) to the Army Reserve, or similar, clear sounding name will at least make it easier to define and explain to the rest of society.
  14. *Dr_Evil sits down and starts singing, mainly because the first line of the lyric of the song in his head is apt. You can read what you like into the rest, although it could be taken as a plea from a beleaguered STAB, who has given his all and feels a bit let down - but ain't giving up yet.*

    (All together, now)

    I got soul, but I'm not a soldier
    I got soul, but I'm not a soldier
    I got soul, but I'm not a soldier
    I got soul, but I'm not a soldier
    I got soul, but I'm not a soldier
    I got soul, but I'm not a soldier
    I got soul, but I'm not a soldier
    I got soul, but I'm not a soldier
    I got soul, but I'm not a soldier
    I got soul, but I'm not a soldier

    Yeah, you know you got to help me out
    Yeah, oh don't you put me on the back burner
    You know you got to help me out, yeah.
    You're gonna bring yourself down, yeah.
    You're gonna bring yourself down
    Yeah, oh don't you put me on the back burner
    You're gonna bring yourself down
    Yeah, you're gonna bring yourself down

    Over and out, last call for sin
    While everyone's lost, the battle is won
    With all these things that I've done
    All these things that I've done
    If you can hold on
    If you can hold on
    Hold on

    (c) All These Things That I've Done, The Killers
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