Discussion in 'Infantry' started by ChrisV, Aug 19, 2005.
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Have any other countires ordered the A2?
No. They have their own Military Industrial base to protect.
Back in the '80s I talked to a SASC chap on the Sales Team, trying to folg SA80 and LAW90 around the world. not even th eIrish Army would have it (sensibly went for the Ateyr AUG).
I beleieve that the only Countries who bought them (or were given them) were Mozambique, and the Papua New Guinea defence Force.
Maybe it's just that everyone else wants to use all the available cover and not just have to fire round the right hand side of things. It's a bit daft that everyone knows that if you go to ground behind some cover, which side of it you'll pop up at to fire a few rounds.
How much were they flogging them for?
I bet Mr K or any of his clones could slash MOD UK's prices to the core.
An L85a2 is an upgraded a1. The a2 is not "produced".
Because most people know you can't polish a turd.
letters Page Daily Telegraph 02 October 2001
( and yes, he's subsequently moved on )
I wasn't on the trial but I've read the classified report which came out of it. I've also worked in Defence Sales for , er, seven years.
Maybe one of the reasons we can't sell this weapon overseas is that too many people in our own country want to tell the world (wrongly) that it ain't fit for purpose. Also, the A1's recognised failures prejudiced early potential buyers, such as the Omanis and its hard to battle back from that kind of rep.
Personally, I'm inclined to take PoD's word on this one.....him being a rufty-tufty professional Infantry cherry-berry and all....
I'd be interested to hear how many actual shooters on Op Telic 1 experienced problems with the A2.
Because it's a piece of s"""e.
All you need to know about the SA80/A2 is that SF rejected it. 'Nuff said.
Having said that, if you lined up every MoD civil servant, I'd be happy to find out exactly how many people you can shoot wwith an A2 before it jams.
If it does'nt jam, I'll apologise on this Board - then I'll shoot Tony and Mike "Birdshit" Jackson.
Well I never actually shot a round in anger on Telic 1, which is lucky really as due to the safety cach on my A2 sticking at will on either 'safe' or 'fire', leading to a change in my weapon drills....
Safety catch.... oh sh1t, mag off, smack safety catch with mag, mag on......
Far from satisfactory and far from the level of reliability to be expected. And before I get accused of not cleaning or maintaining my 'Bob Marley' as per the instructions, far from it, as would anyone who thought that that their weapon could at some point be their savior. It was spotless and it was only after the safety catch was striped down and DRY cleaned that the problem became less, if not cured. And don't forget, dry cleaning in desert conditions was contrary to the book for the A2. But hey, it was good enough for my uncle in the Second World War so it was good enough for me..... besides, it wasn't going to make it worse was it?
PP, perhaps if your weapon wasn't 'spotless' it wouldn't have had the problems you faced.? A significant number of the gang I deployed with fired considerable amounts of ammunition, and their lives were certainly depending on it. Having learnt that keeping the weapon loaded up with oil prevented stoppages, there were no dramas, and no complaints. But then maybe we were just lucky to have had the ITDU visit.
And for those of us who have been around for a few years, do we really have to go around this buoy again?
The SF rejected the weapon as they have a completely different requirement to the standard infantry soldier. The SF have rejected lots of things, doesn't automatically make it shite.
Care to explain your vast operational experience of using the weapon? Or did you hear a bloke talking about it in the block in the depot?
One of the overwhelming factors by which SF choose their kit (incl wpns) is weight. The current M4/C8/Diemarco is 3.4Kg against the IW's 4.98 Kg, against which is balanced the reduction in range, accuracy and consistency. In Afghanistan the SAS found that their C-8s and Minimis were being outranged by the heavier former Soviet weapons (RPK, etc.) and asked for....The LSW.
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