If Labour win the election is a Communist UK a real possibility and how would it happen?

theinventor

War Hero
Communism indeed. That's quite funny. Labour isn't even all that far to the left, but have you seen how far to the right the conseratives are ?

View attachment 431233
I think we all reckon we know what "left" and "right" axes describe, but I'm having trouble with the "authoritarian" vs "libertarian" one.
Greens would be fairly directive on things like energy policy which would feel pretty authoritative if you didn't like it.
 
I'm guessing it would look something like this ?

download (8).jpeg

Just my imagination though, what am I like ?
 

lecky

War Hero
O.K. It's not the Labour party, but I've a Green Party and Extinction Rebellion member as a colleague in work. She's ambitious and trying to wangle a nomination for the Council, or MP, in central Bristol where the Greens stand a fighting chance.
She's learnt to keep her opinions to herself, when she was roundly laughed at during a party meeting, for suggesting that a good side to Brexit, would be to allow the UK to set it's own radical laws on Green issues. (She's still a little bewildered by that, as nobody explained why she was laughed at) She now parrots policy like a good un.
Lately, it's been to denounce mainstream political party policies and finish off with " Democracy has run its course, it's time to replace it with something else.,"
Obviously, she'd be quite happy to get into power using Democracy. It's what happens afterwards that gives me the creeps.
Apparently, it's all about taking random members of the public off the streets, ( a bit like a call up to Jury service) then putting them on a course about "How to think properly" and then letting them council the self selecting elite in Government, on setting policy. Oh and she used to be a Marxist.
If she's coming out with this stuff, you can bet it's been planted in her head at local and possibly national level: Once we are in, how can we legislate to make ourselves the New Establishment and make it really difficult to remove us?
Top of the list has to be the removal of all the checks and balances of the old Establishment?
 
O.K. It's not the Labour party, but I've a Green Party and Extinction Rebellion member as a colleague in work. She's ambitious and trying to wangle a nomination for the Council, or MP, in central Bristol where the Greens stand a fighting chance.
She's learnt to keep her opinions to herself, when she was roundly laughed at during a party meeting, for suggesting that a good side to Brexit, would be to allow the UK to set it's own radical laws on Green issues. (She's still a little bewildered by that, as nobody explained why she was laughed at) She now parrots policy like a good un.
Lately, it's been to denounce mainstream political party policies and finish off with " Democracy has run its course, it's time to replace it with something else.,"
Obviously, she'd be quite happy to get into power using Democracy. It's what happens afterwards that gives me the creeps.
Apparently, it's all about taking random members of the public off the streets, ( a bit like a call up to Jury service) then putting them on a course about "How to think properly" and then letting them council the self selecting elite in Government, on setting policy. Oh and she used to be a Marxist.
If she's coming out with this stuff, you can bet it's been planted in her head at local and possibly national level: Once we are in, how can we legislate to make ourselves the New Establishment and make it really difficult to remove us?
Top of the list has to be the removal of all the checks and balances of the old Establishment?
1574202883273.png
Get Her one of these... ;)
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
O.K. It's not the Labour party, but I've a Green Party and Extinction Rebellion member as a colleague in work. She's ambitious and trying to wangle a nomination for the Council, or MP, in central Bristol where the Greens stand a fighting chance.
She's learnt to keep her opinions to herself, when she was roundly laughed at during a party meeting, for suggesting that a good side to Brexit, would be to allow the UK to set it's own radical laws on Green issues. (She's still a little bewildered by that, as nobody explained why she was laughed at) She now parrots policy like a good un.
Lately, it's been to denounce mainstream political party policies and finish off with " Democracy has run its course, it's time to replace it with something else.,"
Obviously, she'd be quite happy to get into power using Democracy. It's what happens afterwards that gives me the creeps.
Apparently, it's all about taking random members of the public off the streets, ( a bit like a call up to Jury service) then putting them on a course about "How to think properly" and then letting them council the self selecting elite in Government, on setting policy. Oh and she used to be a Marxist.
If she's coming out with this stuff, you can bet it's been planted in her head at local and possibly national level: Once we are in, how can we legislate to make ourselves the New Establishment and make it really difficult to remove us?
Top of the list has to be the removal of all the checks and balances of the old Establishment?

The point there is that she sees such thinking is reasonable - and I'd hazard that she's not open to debate, is she?
 

FHA

LE
Communism indeed. That's quite funny. Labour isn't even all that far to the left, but have you seen how far to the right the conseratives are ?

View attachment 431233

Labour and the Greens Libertarian?
I’m assuming they gone right off the Authoritarian scale and that’s them coming round onto the graph again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JCC

LE
Lately, it's been to denounce mainstream political party policies and finish off with " Democracy has run its course, it's time to replace it with something else.,"
...
Apparently, it's all about taking random members of the public off the streets, ( a bit like a call up to Jury service) then putting them on a course about "How to think properly" and then letting them council the self selecting elite in Government, on setting policy.

I do share her apparant antipathy towards the Party system and dissatisfaction with it does seem to be coming more to the fore.

Selecting members of the public by ballot is called sortition: Have a dekko at below if you're interested:

  1. Sortition: Government by Jury
  2. 10 reasons why Sortition is better than Elections
  3. The Fetura or Sortition Option
I'm a big fan and would really like to see it trialled somewhere (NI?)
 
I do share her apparant antipathy towards the Party system and dissatisfaction with it does seem to be coming more to the fore.

Selecting members of the public by ballot is called sortition: Have a dekko at below if you're interested:

  1. Sortition: Government by Jury
  2. 10 reasons why Sortition is better than Elections
  3. The Fetura or Sortition Option
I'm a big fan and would really like to see it trialled somewhere (NI?)

After attending a trial in which the jury was selected from the public, I view people selected from the public to govern us with absolute horror.
(Almost as much horror as I view those currently "governing" us or standing in the wings waiting to govern us).
 

JCC

LE
After attending a trial in which the jury was selected from the public, I view people selected from the public to govern us with absolute horror.
(Almost as much horror as I view those currently "governing" us or standing in the wings waiting to govern us).

Devil or the Deep Blue Sea?

Most historical sortition systems seem to have had a mechanism for removing the mad, bad, and "won't serve" from amongst those selected by ballot.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
After attending a trial in which the jury was selected from the public, I view people selected from the public to govern us with absolute horror.
(Almost as much horror as I view those currently "governing" us or standing in the wings waiting to govern us).

Devil or the Deep Blue Sea?

Most historical sortition systems seem to have had a mechanism for removing the mad, bad, and "won't serve" from amongst those selected by ballot.

My own experience of jury service was that those who were working and could find a way to be deferred did so. The jury I was on didn't inspire much confidence, if I'm honest.
 

JCC

LE
My own experience of jury service was that those who were working and could find a way to be deferred did so. The jury I was on didn't inspire much confidence, if I'm honest.

Which is fine - no point in putting pressed men into a position like that. One big potential problem with sortition is finding a way to get professionals away from their job for three years - have to stuff their mouths with gold I expect.
 
My own experience of jury service was that those who were working and could find a way to be deferred did so. The jury I was on didn't inspire much confidence, if I'm honest.
I did a weeks coroner jury service 6 years ago.
Most were OK, a couple were throbbers. The main problem here was that coroners jury's had to be unamimous (spelling) which meant the throbbers could be a real pain.
 
Whereas the Party system seems to select for throbbers ?
This can happen anywhere. Once you get idiots running things they will naturally ensure that any one decent is closed out. It isn't being evil, it is being human.
I have this and the (much more welcome) opposite in the army and civie street.
One of the stupidest comments I have heard is, 'we will improve things from the bottom up'.
You cannot, if the top doesn't want to improve it won't.
 
O.K. It's not the Labour party, but I've a Green Party and Extinction Rebellion member as a colleague in work. She's ambitious and trying to wangle a nomination for the Council, or MP, in central Bristol where the Greens stand a fighting chance.
She's learnt to keep her opinions to herself, when she was roundly laughed at during a party meeting, for suggesting that a good side to Brexit, would be to allow the UK to set it's own radical laws on Green issues. (She's still a little bewildered by that, as nobody explained why she was laughed at) She now parrots policy like a good un.
Lately, it's been to denounce mainstream political party policies and finish off with " Democracy has run its course, it's time to replace it with something else.,"
Obviously, she'd be quite happy to get into power using Democracy. It's what happens afterwards that gives me the creeps.
Apparently, it's all about taking random members of the public off the streets, ( a bit like a call up to Jury service) then putting them on a course about "How to think properly" and then letting them council the self selecting elite in Government, on setting policy. Oh and she used to be a Marxist.
If she's coming out with this stuff, you can bet it's been planted in her head at local and possibly national level: Once we are in, how can we legislate to make ourselves the New Establishment and make it really difficult to remove us?
Top of the list has to be the removal of all the checks and balances of the old Establishment?
A watermelon.
Green on the outside and red on the inside.
 
Devil or the Deep Blue Sea?

Most historical sortition systems seem to have had a mechanism for removing the mad, bad, and "won't serve" from amongst those selected by ballot.
I didn't know it was called 'Sortition', so I learned something there. As we were taught at school, there were some of the ancient Greek societies/states that governed by this method. People (Adult men) were randomly selected to serve in the assembly, with representative numbers of different professions and areas. Some carpenters, some fishermen, some merchants etc. This was wide open to manipulation by the powers that be, a feature that still pervades elements of Greek society today. Only a couple of years ago I was talking to a Greek Colonel, who was amazed that the British military was politically agnostic, as careers, appointments and promotion in their forces have a strong element of being of the correct political affiliation. Then again, that could be because they also have had recent experience of military government.
 
Its quite simple, a Green government will trust the people to make the right decisions in a totally fair peoples parliament, and help them to make the right decision by repeatedly hitting them round the head with a rifle butt until they agree.
 

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