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If I wanted loonies in government, I'd have voted Labour

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Fantastic so we agree then.
Where? Especially when SAGE/PHE are classing anyone who has tested positive for Covid in the last 28 days and dying of something non-Covid as a Covid death.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Covid is not an associated condition to being hit by a bus/being trampled to death by a horde of spiny anteaters. I have Diabetes and a heart condition, should they be mentioned if they had the absolute square root of fcukall to do with me dying by other means? If the answer is No, then why is a positive test within 28 days being used as the go-to figure for PHE and SAGE when it comes to death statistics, not every death is caused by Covid. As I said earlier there's "dying of" which should be recorded as Covid death, "dying with" and "dying" which shouldn't be included in the Covid death figures.
Have you got any proof of "person hit by bus recorded as dying of Covid", or is this one of those urban myths like "the Democrats stole the US Presidential Election" where the more... ideologically driven types... insist that it happened, regardless of their not being any proof of it whatsoever? As in, they go to court swearing blind that it's true, and when pushed, don't have any actual evidence for their claim?

There are people who want to believe that Covid "isn't that dangerous" (for whatever reason) or "is all a hoax to control the sheeple!!! Eleventy!!!" - are you sure you aren't swallowing one of their gateway drugs?
 
like most governments in democracies
To varying degrees aye, the Blessed Margaret and Blair did do stuff mind - hence legacies as beloved idols of everyone....
 
Spot on. Although I like Boris he can't make a tough decision and is often incredibly ambiguous.
I find him amusing but he's the last person I'd let walk my dog if I had one. You'd send him out with a Border Collie and he'd return with a Peke, swearing blind it had shrunk in the rain.
That said, he was the best of what was on offer.
A bit of a "Best dressed man in Albania" comment.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
Have you got any proof of "person hit by bus recorded as dying of Covid", or is this one of those urban myths like "the Democrats stole the US Presidential Election" where the more... ideologically driven types... insist that it happened, regardless of their not being any proof of it whatsoever? As in, they go to court swearing blind that it's true, and when pushed, don't have any actual evidence for their claim?

There are people who want to believe that Covid "isn't that dangerous" (for whatever reason) or "is all a hoax to control the sheeple!!! Eleventy!!!" - are you sure you aren't swallowing one of their gateway drugs?
I think there’s been some confusion about causes of death and government figures of deaths after a positive test.
 
I hear you on this and I've noted that others whose views I often share on other matters feel the same. To some extent, it reminds me of the war weary public mood in 1945, which saw Attlee elected rather than Churchill, despite victory in a situation much more clear cut than now. Nor did it stop a million books and websites since picking open every decision made in that war, all with the benefit of hindsight.

In some ways though, this situation is even harder on the Government, since there are two diametrically opposed positions, each with strong partisanship in one of the World's most open liberal democracies. Neither position is entirely right or wrong and the situation is evolving constantly. Team Boris has to chart an extremely difficult path between them with no obvious alternatives. Earning much of our living through being an international hub state also makes virus control even harder.

To push for one direction or another is a luxury open to her Majesty's loyal opposition, the media and each of us as individuals, but not to the sitting Government, which must try to the best of its ability to be all things to all men. Strategically, we are probably doing OK. I fully agree tactical mistakes have been made, as they are in war. But again history teaches that whilst hard-line positions often confer an early advantage, they don't always win in the end. Often because the opponent learns from them and improves on them. We will do likewise.

So, my view is that it is little use simply blaming HMG for this, we need to tough it out, do our bit and accept that there are no easy answers, mistakes will be made but we will get through it.
1 September 1939 - 10th May 1940 could be relevant here.
 
I think you need to see what “Austerity” looks like in other places that really practice it.
Having spent a fair degree of my formative years in Singapore and Malaya, then worked in the Middle East I understand what poverty is and looks like thanks. How relative poverty can affect people as well.
 
Boris is operating with the best intentions, and compared to that Dragon Theresa May's time in office I know who I would rather have in No10, its Boris every time. However he has made some fundamental errors.

1. His Cabinet team are mostly a bunch of chancers and wasters, Jenrick (of questionable honesty) who couldn't make up his mind where his main household is in Lockdown 1. Gove, who is as slimy as a slippery eel in vaseline, Hancock, who never answers a question about anything, Shapps who as Transport Secretary has allowed the clogging of vital arteries in our cities to allow a couple of cyclists to have a clear pathway on their way to work, even when they can and do work from home.
2. Boris has failed to appoint a deputy (even when under ventilation for Covid) allowing a vacuum in leadership becoming free for all to take place amongst his cabinet colleagues for a number of weeks, More recently he has been in isolation trying to run the country from No10 with questionable connectivity to Parliament. This has been a major error on Boris' part.
3. His decisions on major capital projects like HS2, more taxpayers hard earned being spent on knocking this country's heartlands apart, despite his "Green" agenda.
4. His "green" policies which seem to move forward by 5 years every 2 months.

I was a Boris supporter, I have to say that a year on under his leadership I doubt I would be a supporter in future elections.

At heart and without wishing to deviate into the Boris thread, I think he is by strong conviction a good old classic Liberal, tempered by the ability to see both sides of the coin as a result of his journalist background.

This is why he was suited to the BREXIT fight, as it was essentially a battle to break away from an organisation he saw taking an increasingly authoritarian turn, at the same time diverging from UK's core interests. In the same way, he dislikes the authoritarian instincts that drive the progressive Left, but as a classic Liberal, is loathe to take the same path in order to curb them.

Conversely, it is why Boris seems less suited to the COVID crisis, which does require a somewhat more authoritarian approach in order to veer and haul quickly between starkly conflicting imperatives. He is deeply uncomfortable being that man. Indeed, he would rather please both sides, which he physically cannot. Hence why I think he has at times been slow to change direction and relied so much on his advisors.

Worse, his next potential challenge will be to reconcile newly post-BREXIT Britain and an expectant, impatient red wall, with a less emollient, progressively minded and internationalist Biden administration in the US. Again, he cannot move towards pleasing one without alienating the other and this will once more risk paralysing him...
 
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Boris is operating with the best intentions, and compared to that Dragon Theresa May's time in office I know who I would rather have in No10, its Boris every time. However he has made some fundamental errors.

1. His Cabinet team are mostly a bunch of chancers and wasters, Jenrick (of questionable honesty) who couldn't make up his mind where his main household is in Lockdown 1. Gove, who is as slimy as a slippery eel in vaseline, Hancock, who never answers a question about anything, Shapps who as Transport Secretary has allowed the clogging of vital arteries in our cities to allow a couple of cyclists to have a clear pathway on their way to work, even when they can and do work from home.
2. Boris has failed to appoint a deputy (even when under ventilation for Covid) allowing a vacuum in leadership becoming free for all to take place amongst his cabinet colleagues for a number of weeks, More recently he has been in isolation trying to run the country from No10 with questionable connectivity to Parliament. This has been a major error on Boris' part.
3. His decisions on major capital projects like HS2, more taxpayers hard earned being spent on knocking this country's heartlands apart, despite his "Green" agenda.
4. His "green" policies which seem to move forward by 5 years every 2 months.

I was a Boris supporter, I have to say that a year on under his leadership I doubt I would be a supporter in future elections.
He hasn't changed a bit.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
At heart and without wishing to deviate into the Boris thread, I think he is by strong conviction a good old classic Liberal, tempered by the ability to see both sides of the coin as a result of his journalist background.

This is why he was suited to the BREXIT fight, as it was essentially a battle to break away from an organisation he saw taking an essentially authoritarian turn, at the same time diverging from UK's core interests. In the same way, he dislikes the authoritarian instincts that drive the progressive Left, but as a classic Liberal, is loathe to take the same path in order to curb them.

Conversely, it is why Boris seems less suited to the COVID crisis, which does require a somewhat more authoritarian approach in order to veer and haul quickly between starkly conflicting imperatives. He is deeply uncomfortable being that man. Indeed, he would rather please both sides, which he physically cannot. Hence why I think he has at times been slow to change direction and relied so much on his advisors.

Worse, his next potential challenge will be to reconcile newly post-BREXIT Britain and an expectant, impatient red wall, with a less emollient, progressively minded and internationalist Biden administration in the US. Again, he cannot move towards pleasing one without alienating the other and this will again risk paralysing him...
I think that seems fair
 
To varying degrees aye, the Blessed Margaret and Blair did do stuff mind - hence legacies as beloved idols of everyone....
She appeared to do stuff regardless of popularity which caused her to be stabbed in the back, Blair started with a majority and steadily lost it, but managed to jump shit before it all went tits up.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Have you got any proof of "person hit by bus recorded as dying of Covid", or is this one of those urban myths like "the Democrats stole the US Presidential Election" where the more... ideologically driven types... insist that it happened, regardless of their not being any proof of it whatsoever? As in, they go to court swearing blind that it's true, and when pushed, don't have any actual evidence for their claim?

There are people who want to believe that Covid "isn't that dangerous" (for whatever reason) or "is all a hoax to control the sheeple!!! Eleventy!!!" - are you sure you aren't swallowing one of their gateway drugs?
Read it properly, I stated "dying with", not "dying of", PHE/SAGE are using skewed figures. The deaths of those who have tested positive within the last 28 days are being reported as Covid deaths. Just supposing that you tested the day before the briefing results come out, you get hit by a bus/meteorite/falling 747 engine, because you've tested positive, you are one of the Covid deaths that PHE/SAGE use on the televised briefings. You haven't died "of Covid", you've died "with Covid", big difference.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
Read it properly, I stated "dying with", not "dying of", PHE/SAGE are using skewed figures. The deaths of those who have tested positive within the last 28 days are being reported as Covid deaths. Just supposing that you tested the day before the briefing results come out, you get hit by a bus/meteorite/falling 747 engine, because you've tested positive, you are one of the Covid deaths that PHE/SAGE use on the televised briefings. You haven't died "of Covid", you've died "with Covid", big difference.
The deaths reported are approximate and not easy to measure from death certificates. It can take a long time to collate the actual figures from the death certificates.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
The deaths reported are approximate and not easy to measure from death certificates. It can take a long time to collate the actual figures from the death certificates.
Then just use confirmed Covid cases only.
 
Having spent a fair degree of my formative years in Singapore and Malaya, then worked in the Middle East I understand what poverty is and looks like thanks. How relative poverty can affect people as well.
Not poverty, just government cutting the fat on unnecessary bullsh*t.
 

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