If a non Nuke WW3 Broke Out...

#1
Right, so lets say we go to war with Russia.

There will be no Nukes involved, and we're not In Iraq or Afghan, all our troops are In the UK, Cyprus, and Germany. All the UOR kit we've procured over the past few years Is sat around In these locations.

How would it all fit into the Army?

Armoured Inf: Warrior, that's fine.
Mech: 432 Bulldog, again, that's fine.
Light: As normal, but with Jackal aswell as LR platforms
Air Assault: As normal

Where would Mastiff fit in all this? Logistics? Viking? What about the newer armoured vehicles on their way In like Ridgeback? Would we be using Osprey/the Issued Plate Carrier with Temperate DPM covers or would we go back to ECBA?

Discuss, or ignore If it's a boring subject. With all the new armoured vehicles and other UORs It'd be strange how we'd fit It all in around our existing structure, at the moment all the kits out on Ops - would we even keep it all after finishing In AFG/Iraq?
 
#2
Whiskey_60 said:
With all the new armoured vehicles and other UORs It'd be strange how we'd fit It all in around our existing structure, at the moment all the kits out on Ops - would we even keep it all after finishing In AFG/Iraq?
don't worry, there's always iran and we wont even need to paint them, and not far to travel either
 
#3
I'm pretty sure things like Mastiff/Ridgeback come into their own after the initial war bit, during the whole COIN/peace enforcement/occupying bit.

So if in your future war we take and annex a bit of the Russian Federation (right......!), thats where your Mastiffs come in.

Viking is RM run so I'd expect these to be trogging round Norway or similar. Meant to be pretty good over snow.

TBH though, is this ever likely to happen???! We didn't go to war with them last time, worst that can happen is a stand-off really, and hopefully it won't go back to that sort of tension again at all.
 
#4
I don't think it'll happen, though I guess you can never be sure.

The post was made just to basically see where all our UOR kit which was procured under a COIN based operation would fit in a conventional war and the British Army ORBAT.
 
#5
Exactly - and where the hell would all those fast interceptor role Eurofighters (that everyone knows were a pointless long term purchase) fit in to this scenario as well - oh, hang on...
 
#6
Surly the mastiff is the natural successor to the Saxon and would fill the battle field taxi role.
 
#7
Greengrass said:
Surly the mastiff is the natural successor to the Saxon and would fill the battle field taxi role.
Didn't think of that. Although If I remember rightly Saxon was used by Mech Battalions which now use the 432 Bulldog.
 
#8
By definition a UOR is procurred for a specific operation and should normally be ditched at the end of the operation or taken into "core". If it is taken into core then specific funding from the defence budget must be identified to pay for the kit through life - it goes without saying that there must be an enduring requirement for UOR equipment to be taken into core.
 
#9
Aren't vehs like Mastiff a bit underarmed and high to be a good APC in conventional war?

I thought all the 432s were going to be Bulldog to be used to protect patrols in Iraq/Afghan, rather than being part of the regular ORBAT. Same with Saxon but for quieter areas?

To be honest I can see how you could use the new vehs as an APC but isn't that what FRES is meant to be, giving us something like Stryker/Piranha/LAV...
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
Within 10 days, and with the best will in the world, a WW3 WOULD go nuclear. It would start off with one side sh!tting a brick because of one loss or another, and then deciding that tactical battlefield nukes weren't really THAT bad, but the other side would disagree, angrily, and through something bigger in. The other side would say "I say old bean, that's not cricket!" and launch an all-out nuclear assault.

Lots of melted bits of Mastiff, and Snatch etc - doesn't really matter how many.
 
#14
rickshaw-major said:
rickshaw-major said:
WE haven't got the ammo!!!!!

So don't bother!
Oh and Troops might be a bit of a sticky one as well :evil:
Yeah too right the MOD would have to increase the actual number of troops quite drastically before anything else. Conscription could once again be a possibility in that situation?
 
#15
Flashman07 said:
rickshaw-major said:
rickshaw-major said:
WE haven't got the ammo!!!!!

So don't bother!
Oh and Troops might be a bit of a sticky one as well :evil:
Yeah too right the MOD would have to increase the actual number of troops quite drastically before anything else. Conscription could once again be a possibility in that situation?
Not enough time. That's why the TA was heavily subscribed in the 70's and 80's.
 
#16
putteesinmyhands said:
Flashman07 said:
rickshaw-major said:
rickshaw-major said:
WE haven't got the ammo!!!!!

So don't bother!
Oh and Troops might be a bit of a sticky one as well :evil:
Yeah too right the MOD would have to increase the actual number of troops quite drastically before anything else. Conscription could once again be a possibility in that situation?
Not enough time. That's why the TA was heavily subscribed in the 70's and 80's.
True but even with the TA we could hardly match up to the number of russians. As much as i dont doubt the quality of our soldiers above the rooski's, sometimes numbers are all it boils down to.
 
#17
Flashman07 said:
putteesinmyhands said:
Flashman07 said:
rickshaw-major said:
rickshaw-major said:
WE haven't got the ammo!!!!!

So don't bother!
Oh and Troops might be a bit of a sticky one as well :evil:
Yeah too right the MOD would have to increase the actual number of troops quite drastically before anything else. Conscription could once again be a possibility in that situation?
Not enough time. That's why the TA was heavily subscribed in the 70's and 80's.
True but even with the TA we could hardly match up to the number of russians. As much as i dont doubt the quality of our soldiers above the rooski's, sometimes numbers are all it boils down to.
No we will be OK.

We simply have to consider oue Force Multipliers e.g

Our overwhelming number of MBT and AICV

Our Integrated Air Defence System and our complete envelope of AD missile and AAA coverage from Ultra Low Level to Ultra High Level.

Our Fighter superiority.

Our Surface and sub-Surface Naval capabilities and

Oh feck :shaking:
 
#18
The point is that doctrine and therefore ORBATs etc exist to enable general procurement etc and is based in assumptions that are on the whole politically expedient. How the armed forces are actually equipped in reality is based in, well, reality. The reason why we are not equipped to defeat, say, the Russians is because that kind of thing does not fit in either basket; its neither politically expedient or real.
 
#19
Oh, yeah, believe me when I tell you that WW3 will, by default, involve nuclear weapons. That's realist IR theory for you. Bummer.
 
#20
Dragstrip said:
The point is that doctrine and therefore ORBATs etc exist to enable general procurement etc and is based in assumptions that are on the whole politically expedient. How the armed forces are actually equipped in reality is based in, well, reality. The reason why we are not equipped to defeat, say, the Russians is because that kind of thing does not fit in either basket; its neither politically expedient or real.
Yeah it is highly unlikely we would go to war with russia et al but for the sake of speculation...
 

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