Idle young should be entitled to nothing - The Times

#1
An article I can certainly agree with.

The Times said:
The state “should not stifle incentive, opportunity, responsibility”, wrote Sir William Beveridge in the 1942 report that inspired the post-war welfare state. “In establishing a national minimum it should leave room and encouragement for voluntary action by each individual to provide more than that minimum for himself and his family.”



The Times said:
Even so, before the first world war Beveridge was certainly not advocating that the state should look after people from cradle to grave. He believed in practical measures and self-help. He persuaded Winston Churchill to create labour exchanges on the German model and to require workers to insure against unemployment. Only when the inter-war slump exhausted the insurance fund did the government introduce uninsured handouts.

That dole was deeply resented as undermining a man’s dignity. He wanted work because that enabled him to support his family. Depending on state or private charity carried a heavy stigma. Having seen the impact of the Great Depression, it must have been unimaginable to Beveridge that anyone would choose to live on benefit in preference to being in work. Given the ethos of the age, it was not just wishful thinking to assert that the state should not stifle incentive or responsibility.

Society today is very different. Stigma has been abolished. To live on benefits has become a lifestyle choice. In many families there is no memory of anyone working. Ours is a culture of entitlement, a word coined to minimise shame and maximise claiming.
Micheal Portillo Idle young should be entitled to nothing The Times 30th August 2009
 
#3
Sadly we now have full generations that have never worked and “make a good living” on state hand outs, some people manage to have a better standard of living than most of us with their every need catered for. Free rent, free medication incl their methadone, dole money, income support, tax credits, free school meals the list goes on and on.

The sad fact is a lot of the members on here will never be entitled or allowed to make any claims as opposed to the original intention having paid all your life into “insurance” you will get no support from the state and will have to fight to even get them to pay your NI when you are unemployed.

It is more apparent that some people now have it off to a fine art and can live free for life making no contribution to the State they so readily sponge off. When questioned their answer is why should I work for £100 a week when I can stay in my bed and spend all day drinking for a £250 a week hand out.
 
#5
I had the misfortune to claim Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit two years ago, what a performance that was, the claim was okay,ed after I had to give more information on my pension, my bank balance, the Mem,s salary and my net weekly expenditures, proved by giving in receipts etc. After a year I had a visit from a Council Occifer who informed me that they had miscalculated and that I had been overpaid and could they please have the money back. He asked me if I read the statements of account I was sent each month, 30 pages on both sides of sums it would need an accountant and a Philledelphia lawyer to sort out and interpret into plain English. Needless to say I was bang out of pocket, I went to the council occif and handed back ALL the printed bumf they had sent me and told them to bung the claim as far up as it would go and set fire to what hung out.

They want more information than the Gestapo could wring out of a claimant, just so bloody intrusive and IMO a gross invasion of privacy, although I suppose it is justified in the effort of weeding out duff claimants and fraudsters.

Oh well!, I,m another Black Economy employee, stuff the Taxman.
 
#6
Cap the maximum claim per household and control the allocation of extra housing on the grounds of need, not want.

Looking after a baby in your parents home isn't fatal, generations before did it as a matter of routine. They saved up to afford their own place. Unless your parents are a danger to you or the kid, tough.
 
#7
cbgramc said:
Sadly we now have full generations that have never worked and “make a good living” on state hand outs, some people manage to have a better standard of living than most of us with their every need catered for. Free rent, free medication incl their methadone, dole money, income support, tax credits, free school meals the list goes on and on.

The sad fact is a lot of the members on here will never be entitled or allowed to make any claims as opposed to the original intention having paid all your life into “insurance” you will get no support from the state and will have to fight to even get them to pay your NI when you are unemployed.

It is more apparent that some people now have it off to a fine art and can live free for life making no contribution to the State they so readily sponge off. When questioned their answer is why should I work for £100 a week when I can stay in my bed and spend all day drinking for a £250 a week hand out.
That sums up my neighbours daughter,Big fat munter about 30 (age & weight! 8O ) who's never had a job in her life.Well,actually she did.I got a job in a local factory after my demob & she wanted a lift in to work in the car but it was full,so she never turned up to her first day.
Anyway,she is now a single mother (no father on the scene that I know of because in the 10 years she's had her son,I've never seen one around) of 2 kids who's gotten a nice 3 bed house,all paid for by DSS.
I myself have been unemployed for a while & am that fed up applying for jobs & getting knockbacks (Was told last month I was too overqualified for a job in BT's callcenter!) I'm going self employed after September.The is no point of me starting before that because in the trade I'm going into,it's slack at present.(Plus I had camp & a couple've ACF training weekends as well.As I'll have to declare it to the DSS which is a no brainer & I'l get hammered in tax but at the end of the day,It's a bit of work! :D
 
#9
cbgramc said:
Good luck spike been there for hard working people it is very hard, for them it is just another day at the office.

Cheers,
I'm going into the TV,Phone & BBand extensions as with the digi switch,people are going to need to get their TV's ect connected to digital STB's,be it Sky,Cable or Freeview.
Sky charge £95 for a TV link install,I can get the kit for £15 so can do it for £60 depending on the home & number of links needed.
I'm also going into hard wired telco extensions for broadband,phone & multi room Sky.
I've already had a few jobs over the past few weeks,word of mouth & a few future jobs lined up.
 
#10
Im all for a welfare state to help those in need. But it should be an uncomfortable safety net to ensure the onus is on the person to help themselves .

We all know of a story about an abuser of the system receiving an obscene amount from the state, but from the little ive found out recently its interesting to see how the system has evolved. If somebody could correct me, but was the system in the 70s/80s a case of if you became unemployed you were paid an "ok" percentage of your previous wage which decreased the longer you were unemployed down to an "unbearable" level.

That seems logical, you get support from the system you paid into but still making a job the best option even without the stigma which doesnt exist these days. Yet when during the Glasgow East by election you hear that unemployment and on support was around 8%ish, but disability due to such illnesses as "stress" was 65%ish, you get the idea the system will not change any time soon as its a self feeding beast.
 
#11
Which is exactly the problems.....

I have raised it before but why not simply pay the unemployed for the work they do for the state?

Lots of things need doing, and we'll even pay them for sitting in a room getting educated if neccesary.

No means testing, or checking of nif naf and trivia.

The bod turns up, they get minimum wage (or less). If they turn up 24/7 they get lots of money, if they turn up only for an hour they get fcuk all.

Obviously normal rules apply. Turning up drunk will result in being told to go home for the day. No pay.

Cap child benefit to only two kids. That should stop the little chavetts breeding like rats, and give them the option. Live at home with mum (and day (optional)), or make own way in life with support of the dad. Or else enter the "Single Parents Facility" for some hard core education, personal development, work and lessons in child care.

Other reasons for the cap, we've just hit a population of 60,000,000 in our fair Isle. This would be the fair Isle that has 244,820 SQ KM of space. And thus limited areas to grow the food we need, and all the rest of that jazz.
 
#12
Government figures show that 791,000 babies were born in the year to mid-2008 — 33,000 more than the year before — helping to bring Britain's population to 61.4 million. The net population increase of 408,000 is the largest since 1962, the Office for National Statistics said Friday.
Clicky
 
#13
And according to the papers last week,child births of Immigrant children is nearly outstripping that o UK nationals.
55% of births in London were non UK Nationals.
 
#14
chocolate_frog said:
I have raised it before but why not simply pay the unemployed for the work they do for the state?
Something ive thought about also. They are being paid by the state so make them work for it, there are plenty of jobs needing done like streets swept and bins emptied. Areas with a high proportion of long term unemployed generaly look very run down, get them cleaning up their streets.

But heres one, why not get them into the country side planting trees? Absorbs CO2, makes the countryside look nicer and the trees can be cut down and sold later on. It also gets them outside and active, and all equipment (warm and wet gear for example) can just be bought from military suppliers in non-DPM. In Canada private companies plant trees where loggers have been and are paid by the state under an enviromental law/subsidy, it can be done.
 
#15
spike7451 said:
And according to the papers last week,child births of Immigrant children is nearly outstripping that o UK nationals.
55% of births in London were non UK Nationals.
I saw that in the independant. The national average for immigrant births was around 30%.
 
#16
Everybody talks about the unemployed, but the plain vanilla unemployed are the most honest people in the country. They haven't i) cynically reproduced and started a 16 hour a week job, and spent all the tax credits on themselves, ii) acquired a bad back, iii) married a bird with kids, and started a version of "i".

The childless unemployed get fanny adams, and are mucked about to within an inch of their lives. They aren't where the problem lies (pardon the pun).
 
#17
I am not a pessimist by nature, quite the reverse, until New Labour gradually and insidiously undermined everything and every belief that I grew up, and travelled through life with. Things have now reached such a state, that I don't see anyway out of the mess that the Country is now in. We can all see the problems and root causes, but our hand are tied. A new Government will not be able to put things right because it needs extreme and radical measures, which the lefties wouldn't tolerate for a second. The Country needs a thorough spring clean of scroungers, benefit cheats, young criminals, shit parents, radicals of all types and illegal immigrants. The welfare system is totally ridiculous. Why the fcuck should I have to pay because someone who means fuckall to me wants a load of kids. If you can't afford them, don't fcuking have them. Years ago, it used to be nothing for the first child and not much for each after. Stop the dole for idle youngsters today and you'll get even more muggers tomorrow. Sorry about my feelings on this if it upsets some of you, in which case I know that you've never been in a situation of work or go without. Thieve to get it, go to nick and serve proper time. It'll never fcuking happen my friends, never.
 
#20
intresting programme benefit busters A4e private company payed a lot of money to get people into work.
probably not going to be shown anymore
1st episode single parents hectored into work only to find out they'd be over £100 worse off :?
next the episode where somebodys out of work for 10 years a4e get him a job but firm closes in 4 weeks.
they get a fat bonus he goes through the whole thing of signing on again :(
there are being investigated for massive fraud :twisted:
strangly episode of two has been removed from on demand services :?