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Identifying old hunting rifles

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#1
Can anyone point me to a resource that could help me ID an old hunting rifle with a barrel dated 1919? Only other markings are "JBL" and the number 21 on the major components. Origin Eastern France.

It is a single shot, smooth bore (maybe worn smooth, but I dont think so) hexagonal barrel and seems to take a rimmed cartridge. A 7.62 bullet rattles down the barrel so its a bigger caliber than that, suspect a pistol cartridge.
 
#2
A photograph would be a good start. It could be anything from your description I'm afraid. Sounds like a 410 or 9mm shotgun though.

Post some pics and we'll soon work it out.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#3
Many older 11mm Chassepots were converted to centre fire shotgun cartridges, is it a single shot with a bolt? A Pic would be better.
 
#4
ugly said:
Many older 11mm Chassepots were converted to centre fire shotgun cartridges, is it a single shot with a bolt? A Pic would be better.
Without a picture it really is like playing pin the tail on the donkey but without being allowed to take the blindfold off to see how close you were...
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#5
Many older 11mm Chassepots were converted to centre fire shotgun cartridges, is it a single shot with a bolt? A Pic would be better.
 
#6
Wouldn't the 1919 date throw out the Chassepot? IIRC it was replaced once with a single shot BA, the name of which I can't remember*, and then the Lebel was in service by WW1.

Hexagonal barrel suggests sporter, maybe a rook rifle type?

JBL - summat summat Liege? I seem to remember they made a sod of a lot of chirpy sporting guns to take up spare military production capacity while they wound down after WW1. Or I could be talking cack - lets see the piccies!

* I can now - the Gras rifle. Ta to Wikipedia!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#7
Could have been rebarrelled. roughly what size is the bore?
 

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#8
I had not thought about it being a smallbore shotgun because of the rear "sight", but could be. The calibre is roughly 10mm and there is no defined chamber.
Did not know they made shotguns in 9mm calibre, interesting. Thanks for the feedback so far. Will post some pics when I get home this evening.
 
#9
It's quite common to find Lee-Enfield Service rifles that were smoothbored and rechambered to .410 as shotguns. I imagine similar practice occurred elsewhere. Remember that it is illegal to own a rifle in a "military calibre" in France, (The Germans introduced that rule and the French retained it after the war.) Therefore, many rifle might have been converted to shotguns. 9mm shot cartridges aren't that rare. They were very popular in "garden guns" for use in orchards and the like to keep birds from damaging the fruit.
 
#10
Small bore shotguns.
I find myself wondering just how many years ago it was the No's 1, and 2 'Saloon' cartridges went off the market. I can't remember if there was a No. 3 size.

The No. 1 size I recall. from 1947, was about the diameter of a .22.

I could not understand then what use they were, and I still cannot, but yes, cartridges were made in very small sizes.
 
#11
EX_STAB said:
It's quite common to find Lee-Enfield Service rifles that were smoothbored and rechambered to .410 as shotguns. I imagine similar practice occurred elsewhere. Remember that it is illegal to own a rifle in a "military calibre" in France, (The Germans introduced that rule and the French retained it after the war.) Therefore, many rifle might have been converted to shotguns. 9mm shot cartridges aren't that rare. They were very popular in "garden guns" for use in orchards and the like to keep birds from damaging the fruit.
Thank you Ex-Stab. I think that explains the use of those mini-cartridges I mentioned.

A few years ago I used a bolt action BSA rechambered to .410.
 
#13
I have a database of old sporting rifles ,and if you PM me the info and a phot or two I shall do my best to help.

Old stuff like this fun>
 
#14
Good, you'll be able to reflect when you lose your ticket, if you have one
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#15
I have both .22 and 9mm shotgun cartridges, both are rimfire!
Believe it or not you can still find 9mm rimfire solid ball. I use the .22 rf shot to cull rats and garden pigeons, anything ele gets the .22 rf ball treatment.
 
#16
I have 2006 peashooter not sure of the calibre. I think its 5.56 and its sh1te
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#17
bitterandtwisted said:
I have 2006 peashooter not sure of the calibre. I think its 5.56 and its sh1te
You have my sympathy!
 
#19
Spotter hat on!

It's definitely a garden gun, with what appears to be a Warnant trapdoor action, probably in .32 or perhaps 9mm Flobert rimfire calibre.

These were dirt cheap guns, churned out in enormous numbers from Liege in Belgium from around 1880. As the name implies they were used to kill small pests in circumstances where a larger shotgun would be too much gun.

Sadly, they have almost no collectors' value.
 
#20
Alsacien said:
Here are some pics:



If I was a bit more clued up I would post pics not links...but its late...
the pics are too big to embed well. It looks like a cheap garden shotgun to me. One of the cheapest nastiest actions I've ever seen actually!

I doubt it would be of any value at all but interesting enought as an artefact.

Do check it's not in a current chambering as Police and Home office take a dim view of antiques not conforming to their made up "rules".

In law, it looks old enough to qualify as an antique kept as a curio or ornament. Police might want to ignore the law though as suggested above.
 

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