Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Biscuits_Brown, Jan 14, 2007.
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Reminiscent of the Stasi.
Personally I'm not bothered about the idea of a central database. The idea of a central database means the gov can pool data from other departments. Obviously not accessing info they shouldnt be, like your doctor looking at your criminal record, but a social worker seeing that somebody on their "at risk" list has been repeatedly in hospital for cuts and broken bones would be good to help spot domestic abuse before its too late. Also useful for other things like some people pet hate, those benefit fraudsters. France has a system like this if I remember correctly and has so for some time and it works fine.
What really does worry me is the governments track record with computer systems is utter balls. Not only are they badly designed, over budget and dont work, we now find out they dont even bother to input the data to the system as with the current mess of people with foreign criminal records. Its also really simple, if you dont want hackers to hack the system (Which they will try and do with something this size) then dont connect it to the internet, make access only possible through secure terminals in the relevant departments connected with a secure private connection - taking the weakest link out the of the loop. But that is too simple and logical for the government.
We have had a link between the IR and DSS (as was) sicne the turn of the century and fraud goes on.
This will just help such institutions as the police to go on fishing expeditions investigating people who rock the boat.
It's not even the Government of the day that gives you the problem.
A bored Civil Servant, or one who's just been handed a wedge of cash goes on a fishing expedition for your data, and identity theft is a very real problem.
I dont know too much about the link IR and DSS and why its not effective. Possibly not used properly or not designed properly I dont know, anybody able to fill me in?
Though the police going on fishing expeditions as you put it is rather an extreme possibility pretty much on the view of 1984. But surely its then a case of police finding things in your record that they otherwise wouldnt know. Oh look your rocking the boat and we dont like it, we checked into you and found that you done such and such a crime we are going to arrest you. And surely thats transferable to looking into people who dont rock the boat but still get investigated on suspicion of a crime or other issue, they spot something on there leading the suspect getting arrested. Same thing? Must be progress in catching criminals, no? Why look at the worse case scenario and thinking thats what it will be? Where the logic that the government is secretly wanting to brain wash you and control you. You can not go from a -> d if b & c dont make sense.
Its the exact same thing as with speed cameras. Look at them this way, if they had police on ever road 24/7 to make sure you dont speed then wouldnt you be complaining that those resources would be better used to track down murderers? So they put up speed cameras, as they are more cost effective than a pair boots in a car with a radar gun, and catch you out when your speeding thus fining you. You broke the law and you got caught, that is what your complaining about not the "back door taxation" (no pun intended). Argue about the issue for what it is not what some idiot is saying about it being the end of the world.
Thats why the system needs to be properly designed so that it can't be accessed by those who have no reason to. Just like you dont want a teenage Rooskie hacker getting access to the files on there you dont want a bored civil servant wanting to pad out his retirement fund. You wouldnt give info on Bowmans encryption technology to all squadies on enlistment would you? Same thing here, only those who need access get it, and again even if they are allowed to access the database they shouldnt be allowed to access all of it for example your doctor should be able to read your criminal record. But should be able to red flag a series of broken bones on a patient so that if social services in future investigate the person as a victim of domestic abuse, they see the doctors red flags and suddenly the investigation is made easier and kicked up a gear. And for example in the case of the civil servant (person with access) doing something dodgy then just remember they already can with the info already in the Inland Revenue. A banks call centre employee when you phone them has enough data in front of them to steal you identity, doesnt matter if the centre is in the UK or India.
Doesn't the Data Protection Act prevent one agency that holds data on you, passing that data to anyone else without your permission? Is this one of the very rare occasions of this government getting rid of a law instead of making 100 new ones?
Like they don't have enough info on us all already??!!
I spoke to my MP once (once was enough) with regard to the CSA. He told me that one of the women he was fighting for got 50p a week maintenance because her ex was self employed and refused to say how much he was really earning. He drove a BMW and had a Rangerover too, foreign holidays at least twice a year etc etc. She was on benefit and they couldn't get the information either. The Inland Revenue were unable to pass over his records due to the law. If it prevents children losing out, so much the better. Sometimes, Sven, good comes out of computer systems and data sharing...
But she wouldn't be much better off anyway. Whatever they got him to pay would result in her benefits being cut by the same. The CSA just doesn't work. Either one party is paying too little, or too much and either way one or the other is in difficulty. Many men who have had to pay too much, been unable to get on with their lives and committed suicide out of dispair, have then not been able to pay anything for obvious reasons.
The CSA just doesn't work, no matter how much info they have they will still just get things wrong.
Anyone who believes the Government line that pooling this information is in order to 'help' citizens is absolutely deranged. This is a Surveillance Society, dominated by a punitive, interfering, controlling Government.
The purpose of this central database is solely to enchain the population and to leave them at the mercy of (appallingly incompetent) Civil and Public Servants. This is a very dangerous move. We should tell these prurient jobsworths exactly where to get off. It's about time they were told to sod off and mind their own business.
If I want their 'help' I'll ask for it. In the meantime they should leave me alone. Not too difficult a concept is it?
H_B_Mike you are being terribly niave if you think such a computer system (if it actually worked) would not risk abuse by private individuals or ultimately a government or government department in the future.
This government has suspended habeas corpus for a minority and is now seeking to introduce a law that will allow the imprisonment of individuals who are likely to commit a crime (but have not yet done so). What is to say that a future more extreme (left or right) might not exploit these laws and any national database.
Individual greed and stupidity will leave the information open to exploitation by criminals. Plain stupidity will result in the incorrect information being logged and becoming impossible to correct because 'the system cannot be wrong'.
Everyone should oppose such an invidious idea.
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