ID Cards shelved; now you see them now you dont.

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by armchair_jihad, Jul 15, 2006.

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  1. Excellent article by Matthew Parris in the Times, while we have all been distracted with Levy etc. New Liebour has buried some bad news.......and our liberty survives until the next time.,,1065-2270687,00.html

    And for those of you who cannot be Arrsed to read the whole article - something from the end -

    'It has been Mr Blair’s special genius to bring something of that Third World flavour to our politics. I have written often enough that I think he has a delusional streak: a serious detachment from reality. In the pathology of the sincere impostor this is typically coupled with charm, an apparent self-belief that beguiles others, an almost childishly short attention span, ruthlessness, an impatience with practicalities and a curious selective amnesia.'
  2. makes B'liar sound like a spoiled brat. Other people get sectioned for these same qualities!
  3. As a police officer I think ID cards are useless unless I have an automatic power of arrest for anyone not carrying one to allow me to investigate their identity.

    As a member of the public I don't want the police to have that power.

    Good riddence

  4. You believe the press :?

    I work in the Programme office that is working on the delivery of the ID card, I can assure you that the National ID card Programme is proceeding as planned, they might not deliver to schedule but it's on it's way 8)
  5. Then you Sir are a creature of EVIL and shall be cleansed.
  6. The ID card sheme as it is currently proposed will be the biggest threat to democracy in the UK. As the cards will be used for NHS treatment, getting a job, using your bank ...... it will be an essential part of your life. Currently the home secratary, with NO judicial oversight can take the card away with no justification. This will effectively end your citizenship of the UK. Who would be prepared to speak out against the ruling party if they feel that they will lose their ID card. NO-ONE. Also, how many times are thieves going to try cutting peoples hands off or digging their eyes out to use at cash machines which use fingerprint and iris scans?

    I sent a request to the government office running the ID card scheme see what measures were being put in place to ensure that the user of the card will not be put at risk from having hands cut off etc. After 3 weeks I got the stock reply below which in no way answers my concern.


    Direct Communications Unit
    2 Marsham Street, London SW1P 4DF
    Switchboard 0870 0001585 Fax: 020 7035 4745 Textphone: 020 7035 4742
    E-mail: Website:

    Reference: DELETED

    Date: DELETED

    Dear DELETED,

    Thank you for your e-mail of 5 August about identity cards. Your letter has been passed to me in the Identity Cards Programme Team to respond.

    The Government is very concerned about the growing problem of identity theft and fraud. Genuine and false identities are often used to facilitate fraud and is one reason, amongst others, that the Government has decided to establish a national Identity Cards Scheme. The scheme will provide people with a highly-secure means of protecting their identity. As you may be aware the Identity Cards Bill was re-introduced to Parliament in the House of Commons on 25 May.

    Following on from a Cabinet Office study into the extent of identity fraud, the Home Office has established the Identity Fraud Steering Committee and Identity Fraud Forum to lead a cross public-private sector work programme to tackle identity theft and fraud. One of the Committee's early successes was the production of website for consumers - – which explains how to keep personal information safe, how to get help if one is the victim of identity theft, and what is being done to tackle this growing crime.

    Regarding your concerns on fraud, we are working to develop policies on identity fraud, for example data-sharing powers and new criminal offences. An example of early progress includes aligning the penalties for making fraudulent applications for passports and driving licences in the Criminal Justice Act 2003. Another component of the work is developing and sharing good practice. For example, the Home Office, with other Departments, worked closely with APACS, BBA and CIFAS to produce an identity fraud detection training resource. The Identity Fraud Forum has been set up to provide an excellent means to capture the expertise from skilled practitioners and fraud investigators.

    In addition studies and pilots are being developed to improve capabilities to deter fraudsters. We already have the UKPS database of lost and stolen passports. UKPS are also running a pilot to improve identity verifications by using comparative information from public and private sector databases.

    Regarding lost or stolen identity cards, I can assure you that we are considering the detailed processes that will be needed to (amongst other things) issue replacement documents. The specifics of the charging regime are still being reviewed, subject to continuing work on demand and volumes. It is likely, however, that we would re-issue any lost, stolen or damaged documents to the same validity as the original document.

    More information about identity cards, as well as the progress of the Identity Cards Bill is available on

    I am grateful for the time you have taken to further comment on this issue.

    Yours sincerely



    We should all be very worried.
  7. Does anyone know if it is true that it is planned that Muslim Women will be allowed exemption to haveing a photograph on the proposed ID cards. Because if so, perhaps the powers that be, consider twenty something female enthusiasts of ballroom danceing rather than Wahabi'ists as the most likely profile of a suicide bomber.

    Ballroom dancers present a clear and present danger to British national security, is there no limit to the sickening depravity of these people, check on the attached weblinks if you are not of a nervous disposition!

    Zapata rides!
  8. ZR - Put the tin foil hat away!!! Ballroom dancers are fine, its the icecream salesmen we have to worry about. Those vans are full of surveillance equipment. no really.


  9. But wouldnt it be fair to say that you currently already have that power against anyone who you suspect may have committed a criminal offence?

    ie. tell me who you are and prove it, if I dont believe you then I'll arrest you until I can establish it.

    Surely you only need that power if you suspect that someone has committed an offence - realistically, an ID card would weaken your powers, is it could well be fake, but you would have a hell of a difficult time arguing in court that you had a resonable belief that it was fake.

  10. I like this plan.
  11. I am saying that I would need the power to arrest anyone who does not carry a card to establish his identitiy. The need to suspect a criminal offence would not be neccessary, merely the fact that the person could not prove their identity and then may be (just may be) be wanted or an illegal.

    If you see the second part of my post you will see that as a taxpayer and member of the public I don't want the police to have that power as I suspect that it would be arbiteraily used as officers become locked into a cycle of "this guy can't prove who he is, if I let him go and he later turns out to be a wanted child killer the press will eat me alive" and arrest to cover their backs.

    Funnily enough powers of arrest have allready been reduced this year as I suspect the government does not want us to arrest people. Maybe this a concerted attempt to make our jobs harder.

  12. BTW I am NOT the Planner :D
  13. I personally don't see why we should be worried, the great majority are quite happy to work (using NI Number), retrieve wages from hard work (Banking details, credit history) happy to drive ( DVLA Database), I could go on TV license, mobile phone...... and if you like, although not compulsory buy a passport to freely travel the world.

    In this day and age your details are logged daily, live with it...........