ICC

#1
I find it hard to believe, but apparently, some geezer from the Congo is the first one up in front of the International Criminal Court. I did notice the Israelis crapping themselves and promising State legal aid to any of theirs who might be hauled there. The septics have denied it's existence. I think it is an immense commendation of our fighting forces that we need not be afraid of it. It will be interesting to see how it goes. Karadjic is up for trial, but this one, apparently, is the first.
 
#2
Typical, just about to jump in and get excited about the International Cricket Council and you that. Bah humbug

PS: Hope they execute him anyway for making me log in

HH
 
#3
I have a dream:

Clerk of the Court: "The defendant will rise. Chairman, has your panel of judges reached a verdict?"

Chairman: "We have Mr. Clerk".

Clerk of the Court: "What is your verdict; do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?"

Chairman: "We find the defendant guilty".

Clerk of the Court: "Is this the verdict of you all?"

Chairman: "It is the verdict of us all".

Clerk of the Court: "President, you have heard the verdict - guilty. Will you address the defendant?"

President: "I shall. Anthony Clinton Bliar, you have been found guilty by this Court of the crime of ordering the illegal invasion of a sovereign state. Therefore, you will taken from this place to another place and from thence to a place of execution whereat you will be hanged by the neck until you are dead. Take the guilty man away. The drinks are on me - all welcome".
 
#4
Mine's a very large G n T, ice and a slice. Thank you M'Lud !

But, do we have time before we get started on the Chimp?

That won't take ten minutes, Counsel, rest easy.

Thank you, Sir. Cheers!
 
#5
scrofula said:
I find it hard to believe, but apparently, some geezer from the Congo is the first one up in front of the International Criminal Court. I did notice the Israelis crapping themselves and promising State legal aid to any of theirs who might be hauled there. The septics have denied it's existence. I think it is an immense commendation of our fighting forces that we need not be afraid of it. It will be interesting to see how it goes. Karadjic is up for trial, but this one, apparently, is the first.
The ICC is a seperate court from the one for the FRY where Karadjic is on trial.

The Israelis were worried about being hauled up for thier use of white phos, its all a question of intent it seems, but that won't stop somone trying to use it as a stick to beat them with, hence the offer of protection to their troops. Remember the farce in Belgium with the then israeli PM.

The yanks didn't sign up for it for fear of it being hijacked and used as a political tool gainst them, not unreasonable considering the amount of anti-american feeling around the world.
 
#6
Israelis don't get jumpy about little things like phos, they were using it for all the world to see, arrogant gits. There are more, much darker things, for sure, which is why they are trying to hide the identities of ground troops. Don't want to believe it, don't, up to you. Sometimes the truth is never out, but usually it leaks, and in this case it's guaranteed to.
 
#7
scrofula said:
Israelis don't get jumpy about little things like phos, they were using it for all the world to see, arrogant gits. There are more, much darker things, for sure, which is why they are trying to hide the identities of ground troops. Don't want to believe it, don't, up to you. Sometimes the truth is never out, but usually it leaks, and in this case it's guaranteed to.
So what darker things are these then that will leak out - reaches for bacofoil beret.
 
#8
I can only speculate, but, severe maltreatment, to be polite, of civilians on the ground contrary to all running Conventions. Murder, and associated crimes, basically. And I repeat: I merely speculate, but has the MoD immediately after a conflict, or ever for that matter made a statement to the effect that it wants an international media block on the faces of our boys? No need to. We pretty well always, with a couple of outrageous and rare exceptions, play by the rules.
 
#9
scrofula said:
I can only speculate, but, severe maltreatment, to be polite, of civilians on the ground contrary to all running Conventions. Murder, and associated crimes, basically. And I repeat: I merely speculate, but has the MoD immediately after a conflict, or ever for that matter made a statement to the effect that it wants an international media block on the faces of our boys? No need to. We pretty well always, with a couple of outrageous and rare exceptions, play by the rules.
So what you actually mean is you made it up based on your prejudices.
 
#11
scrofula said:
Oh alright then, the Israelis are the loveliest, kindest people in the Middle East and they can do no wrong. Happy now?
I certainly never said that and I'm very happy, thanks for asking.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#12
scrofula said:
Oh alright then, the Israelis are the loveliest, kindest people in the Middle East and they can do no wrong. Happy now?
Well you appear to be making stuff up that you'd like to believe in. it does, kinda, make you some bloke of the internet wot said it..

Got a wikipedia article on it?
 
#13
Mr Happy, no offence, but read what I said, watch the telly, read the papers and draw your own conclusions. I don't care whether Israelis, Hamas, The Judeaen Popular Front or Brian's mum said it, anyone who goes round dropping phos on civilians, let alone military, is breaking the law. Anyone who jumps up faster than a Jack-in-the-box promising lawyers, press blankets on ground forces' identities etc. is more than likely to be up to no good. Time will tell. I couldn't give a flying about the lot of them, but I do give a flying about people who never wanted to be in harm's way. Which makes me a fool, I know.
 
#14
scrofula said:
Mr Happy, no offence, but read what I said, watch the telly, read the papers and draw your own conclusions. I don't care whether Israelis, Hamas, The Judeaen Popular Front or Brian's mum said it, anyone who goes round dropping phos on civilians, let alone military, is breaking the law. Anyone who jumps up faster than a Jack-in-the-box promising lawyers, press blankets on ground forces' identities etc. is more than likely to be up to no good. Time will tell. I couldn't give a flying about the lot of them, but I do give a flying about people who never wanted to be in harm's way. Which makes me a fool, I know.
Prove it - which law exactly and under what conditions was it broken?
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#15
scrofula said:
Mr Happy, no offence, but read what I said, watch the telly, read the papers and draw your own conclusions. I don't care whether Israelis, Hamas, The Judeaen Popular Front or Brian's mum said it, anyone who goes round dropping phos on civilians, let alone military, is breaking the law. Anyone who jumps up faster than a Jack-in-the-box promising lawyers, press blankets on ground forces' identities etc. is more than likely to be up to no good. Time will tell. I couldn't give a flying about the lot of them, but I do give a flying about people who never wanted to be in harm's way. Which makes me a fool, I know.
I'm afraid that the modern press is the last place I would go for information to draw conclusions from.
 
#16
Deliberately targetting innocent civilians and dropping WP on them might be breaking the law, but that is something for a court to decide having heard the evidence. It is certainly not as clear cut as you make out.

Whole issue of legal/illegal use of WP has become emotive because some are using it as a political football. If a HE shell hits an occupied building the people are just as dead as if t had been hit by WP. WP does make for particularly provocative photo-opportunities.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#17
The WP issue comes from, IIRC, its use in the mid 90's.

It was, IIRC, tagged on as 'yet another Bosnian war crime' and the press got 'hot' on the idea that WP was some modern day napalm.

Napalm itself was widely used in Vietnam and ISTR the argies had it for their Pucara's in FI, I don't think it was deployed then.

Ever since the mid 90's the press has been hot on mines, cluster and WP has if these weapons are so very much worse than HE, FRAG or AP. Unfortunately, the media forgets that these munitions exist as they are excellent in certain circumstances at killing the enemy.

Unfortunately, WP can miss its targets just as easily as HE. But when you've a blue-on-blue or 'fratricide incident' if its HE it is unfortunate, if its WP then the 'war crimes bus' comes to town.

For my money, if I was killing civvies, I'd use HE where force waves kill without tearing bodies apart and that makes much more media friendly corpses. I don't have time for this particular outrage bus and I don't have time for this Iranian/US proxy war. Its tough on the civvies and disgusts me, but its a consequence of two uninvolved countries foreign policies and their sphere's of influence.
 

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