I vow to thee my country...

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by MrPVRd, Dec 13, 2004.

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  1. Her Majesty the Queen, Gawd bless 'er!

    71.8%
  2. Mr Blair and his democratically elected government

    1.4%
  3. The people of Britain, Gawd bless 'em!

    11.3%
  4. My regiment/corps/squadron/service and sod everyone else.

    14.1%
  5. My paycheck and pension!

    1.4%

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  1. The Armed Forces are being shafted left, right and centre by this pathetic, deceitful, mendacious, corrupt and incompetent excuse for a Ministry of Defence.

    Why do those that serve this bunch of cnuts continue to put up with this sh!te, and to whom do they owe allegiance?

    I speak as someone who has had enough and got out, and now only owes allegiance to Mrs PVRd. :twisted:
     
  2. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    Whilst I very definitely understand the point of view of those who voted for their Regt, (perhaps the options of the poll were too limited,) did those members who did not vote for the first option of HM the Queen not understand the Oath of Allegiance they took on signing up ?

    Or is their word of honour worthless ?
     
  3. No Cutaway - it's just that some people have problems reading even very short sentences
     
  4. Sorry, on reflection the options of the poll are too limited.

    My own view is that I did join up to serve HM first and foremost, as figurehead and representative of what this nation stands for and as the ultimate check on unconstitutional government.

    However it is clear that the values enshrined in loyalty to the Crown have been selectively ignored or subverted by the liars in power that call themselves the Queen's ministers. If I had acted in the way that Blunktw@tt has, I would have expected to resign or face court-martial, not a rigged enquiry. And if I had lied to the extent that Bliar has, and taken the same self-serving risks to the well-being of the nation that he has, I would not be able to look at myself in the mirror in the morning.

    Unfortunately loyalty to the Crown now means loyalty by default to the Great Helmsman and the Labour party and their pursuit and consolidation of power, regardless of the damage to parliamentary and constitutional traditions, the standing of this nation on the international stage, and the interests of the British people. So, in my latter days of service I count myself as having pursued the pay and pension option! :evil: Perhaps that is the underlying reason I left.
     
  5. What happened to my post?
     
  6. I had a similar conversation to this 'down the pub' on Friday, one of my non serving friends said that HM doesn't have any real power and if the Gov wanted the royals could be eliminated pretty swiftly (in terms of status and power, not some assasination plot). My view is that the armed forces ultimately serve the Queen via the Ministers, MOD, Generals etc and there would probably be carnage if the state of things were altered.

    From what I understand HM technically has the ultimate say in things, afterall we and the government are all servants of the crown, but she doesn't seem to say much on policy publicly. Some would say if HM chose to get in the way then they would find such powers curtailed fairly quickly. What do you think would happen (be realistic kids)?

    Just how much influence does HM have now anyway?
     
  7. I'm astounded by the numbers of you who think this, but then perhaps I shouldn't be. The Queen has absolutely no real powers whatever. The military is a tool of the democratically-elected government of the day. The Queen's speech to Parliament is written by ministers and contains the political aims of the government. She has no say in the slightest about its content and must surely gag when she reads bits she doesn't like, the ban on foxhunting is a good example. I love the Army me, but it really is outdated in so many ways. A blinkered, outdated, slavish deference to a Queen and her hangers-on, defeats me. Get real guys. This is the best Army in the world. We do things like Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Bosnia, Falklands etc because (in the main) they are the right things to do. I didn't join to serve the Queen, nor the government, nor even my regiment. I joined to serve my country.
     
  8. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    I take it your Oath of Allegiance was suitably amended before you took it ......?
     
  9. True, eustonscot, but the Head of your State is not the Prime Minister. It is the Sovereign, and her line of succession outlives every Government by, on average, something like 5:1 (I think; QE2 has seen and outlived in public office an awful lot of foul little lawyers, and the occasional chemist and landowning peer). QE2, in any case, has more political nous than 50 of the best brains in Parliament.
     
  10. What use is that political nous when she can't use it?
     
  11. Bliar's lot had enough trouble trying to abolish the post of Lord Chancellor. They found that they couldn't and that the Lords would stop them.

    Even assuming a republican motion (Bliar as Head of State) cleared the Commons (highly unlikely) it would be thrown out of the Lords. The Parliament Act could not be used (as it has been to outlaw fox hunting) as any republican agenda would have to be trailed in the manifesto.

    And, if Bliar did somehow attempt the above then there would be mass protest Ukraine-style and the country would be ungovernable.

    The opposite is true!

    The Queen opens and dissolves Parliament and permits general elections to be held. This happens every year in the former case and 4-5 years in the latter case. Ministers are appointed by the Queen (including the Prime Minister) although by convention it appears to be different (ie. that the party leader with an overall majority becomes PM and picks his cabinet) because of the nature of the constitutional monarchy we live in.

    The role of the monarch is written into the laws of this country and it is by convention that things are the way they are. My bit of parchment was signed by Her Maj, not by TCH or Bliar.
     
  12. Go for it mate. The Queen didn't send me to the hot sandy place where things went bang quite a lot, our Tone did. The government calls the shots, not the monarch.
     
  13. A constitutional monarch acts like a tripwire. I'm not an expert on constitutional law but, as I understand it, HMQ's signature on a bill is the final step to make it legal.
    In the event of HMQ ever having to go against the Government of the day, by refusing to sign some piece of legislation, I would imagine that that is the day we are one step away from civil war.
    (I wonder how many times she might have dug her heels in and demanded some sort of revision?)
    Again, AIUI, the Government has to accept her decision to refuse the bill, redaft it or resign and go to the country.
    I can't imagine HMQ ever forcing the issue that far, since, if the Government were returned to power it would place the Monarchy in an impossible position.
    In the most 'flakey' circumstances, a la 'Black August', there is one other extreme step that the Government might take and that is, in effect, to ignore the constitutional monarch and attempt to act on the bill illegally (a desperate measure, admittedly). Such a move would be virtually indistinguishable from deposing HMQ...
    Thereafter; cue aforementioned civil war-cum-massive civil unrest.
    With the present barely disguised shower of republican shite, in 10 Downing Street, I know which side I'll be batting for!
    There's a very handy lamp-post in Whitehall... :twisted:
     
  14. No, Bliar should be hung by the neck until semi conscious, drawn on the executioner's block (his entrails torn out in front of his face) and then quartered with the parts dispatched to the capitals of the four nations of the United Kingdom!

    Incidentally, he has asked his lawyers to look into the prospect of him serving as PM if he relinquishes the party leadership. This is probably an attempt to engineer a painless handover to Broon whilst keeping the trappings of office.

    I can't see that one getting through either House although, in theory if Her Maj is happy then the arrangement should stand - somehow I would doubt this idea would be received warmly in Buck House!
     
  15. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    That's what I like to see, a return to tradition !

    It's also in complete opposition to the Party Line - which can only mean it's a good idea. :lol: