I made a complaint to the Police. WTF is going on?

#41
I think the lesson to be learned is that with any complaint, it er.. 'helps' if an element of hate or, much more effectively, racism was present during the offence.
 
#43
I've been told that the Police don't record or provide CRNs for internet frauds <snip>
I can understand why internet fraud- indeed online crime in general- would be centralised: it obviously requires specialist skills and equipment to combat effectively.
Perhaps the call handlers and front desk staff need training in firstly, not telling the victims of such crimes that they’re not crimes, and secondly, contact details and information about Action Fraud.
 
#44
Perhaps you should have told them that it was about sloppy parking... Plod certainly takes that sort of criminality seriously...

Fury at late-night police parking query


Fury at late-night Hertfordshire Police door knock for bad parking
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#45
#46
I had a friend who worked as civilian staff for our local police service, enquiry desk, the odd shift in the control room. Few years ago she got sent on a one day course for the crime recording software they used, which was a surprise since she had been using the same software for years. Turns out the course was about "prioritisation" - how to classify crime when recorded. Turns out a lot of property 'crime' must now be recorded as a 'civil dispute' and so not a police matter, not a crime. Someone took your money online and failed to provide goods or services, that's a civil dispute for breach of contract, not theft. It keeps the stats less horrific and hides the real impact of cuts to police budgets.
 
#47
I missed this thread but when it was posted it wouldn’t have been massively interesting to me anyway.
But since then, my brother has been the victim of what I guess is a relatively common crime- card fraud / theft. So far, so humdrum.
The interesting thing was- similar to this- the wall of disinterest he found in reporting the crime. In fact I think he was told at one point that no crime had been committed! He got his £1500 back but is still irked by the fact that someone out there also got £1500 gratis, with no apparent danger of being punished.
In the space of 6 months I got 6k and 1.5k lifted out two accounts. No police involvement, no interest at all just money paid back and such crippling security tagged on my accounts i had to swap banks.

I'm in the wrong business.

ETA the best way to make a million quid is steal a quid off a million people

How do I get into that game
 
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#48
I can understand why internet fraud- indeed online crime in general- would be centralised: it obviously requires specialist skills and equipment to combat effectively.
Perhaps the call handlers and front desk staff need training in firstly, not telling the victims of such crimes that they’re not crimes, and secondly, contact details and information about Action Fraud.
In genereal there is a problem with fraud often being dismissed as a "civil matter".

There is also a capacity problem with police officers having to investigate on-line crime.

Were I not an honest chap (and having signed some bits of paper to say i wouldn't), I would go into on-line fraud. Excellent rate of return, and I am fairly happy I could dance around most constabulary's ability to investigate.

The trick is to stay below the radar and not get greedy enough to have proper specialist units come after you. In general, I would be happy that front line responders taking the call would be a bit unsure how to investigate, and it probably wouldn't get very far with over-stretched and undermanned CID.

(And having been Mainstream Cyber Crime Trained, the flagship course for volume crime investigation, I would provide the reference but this did made me laugh -

Screenshot 2019-02-23 at 07.51.16.png


At one stage in my former career, my DI was upset that I was apparently just sat with YouTube open whilst doing paperwork. The more perceptive lads in the office were noting the DefCon videos and everything else that would be up on my screen.

Police training is years behind at the time when I left, but there's nothing new about that - and there are extremly good pockets of high tech investigation, the problem is (as ever) the recruitment, development and then retention of critical skills.

There are some excellent introductions to fraud and other naughty stuff here

Darknet Diaries Podcast

I really enjoyed this one, about the takedown of a DarkNet Market including some good details of tradecraft employed by Law Enforcement (tactics old as Peel, but still work).

Operation Bayonet - Darknet Diaries Podcast
 
#49
@CivvyPete

I used to watch calls come in on the system reporting ransome-ware attacks - you could set your watch by how quickly they would be screened out as "civil matter" or "no cause police action" or some such nonsence.

My mum was the victim of such a thing, so I walked her through what to do and didn't even bother the local police. Draw your own conclusions as to what would happen with someone who either (a) didn't have IT back-up, or (b) didn't know how to deal with police bureaucracy.

Lucky I am honest really, otherwise I could cause quite a profitable bit of trouble on-line.

Still, crime's down you can do less with more and all that.

Sorry, more with less. Geuinine typo there, but quite telling really.
 
#50
There is a huge amount of this sort of thing, so much that unless it becomes a major issue which is known to be carried out by scammers within the jurisdiction, in many cases gets a stiff ignoring.

Some years ago £3k got lifted from an account I had with HSBC in three lots of £1k. I was far from alone and that did get investigated but only because HSBC had kicked up over what turned out to be a major conspiracy. If it's low level stuff forget it

As ever, all about funding and statistics. Thus there is something called the Dedicated Card and Payment Crime Unit (DCPCU) which is sponsored by the cards and banking industry.

Financial Fraud Action UK

And then there is this type of genius....

Police left baffled after caller complains about drug dealing ‘scam’
 
#51
@Blogg

To be fair (and not my usual bleakness) City of London Police have established good financial crime referal units.

I have to have an aide memoire from that lot you mentioned on my desk, very useful it was too.

When I dealt with one fraud, I was staggered at how the banks would just write off up to 250k of fraud against them. They responded quickly to my requests for evidential packs; but they knew they were never going to see the money again.
 
#53
@Blogg

To be fair (and not my usual bleakness) City of London Police have established good financial crime referal units.

I have to have an aide memoire from that lot you mentioned on my desk, very useful it was too.

When I dealt with one fraud, I was staggered at how the banks would just write off up to 250k of fraud against them. They responded quickly to my requests for evidential packs; but they knew they were never going to see the money again.
It's priced in as a Risk metric just like Credit or Default and as long as it is within expected range accepted as a misery that comes with the business and needs to be managed which involves letting some stuff go.

Big scams, clusters and developing pattens get attention, low level individual scams don't.

Lot of effort does go into fraud prevention and security but lot of it circulates around outright deception which is hard to identify until after it has happened.

Then there is human stupidity to contend with. Lot of it about!
 
#54
In genereal there is a problem with fraud often being dismissed as a "civil matter".

There is also a capacity problem with police officers having to investigate on-line crime.

Were I not an honest chap (and having signed some bits of paper to say i wouldn't), I would go into on-line fraud. Excellent rate of return, and I am fairly happy I could dance around most constabulary's ability to investigate.

The trick is to stay below the radar and not get greedy enough to have proper specialist units come after you. In general, I would be happy that front line responders taking the call would be a bit unsure how to investigate, and it probably wouldn't get very far with over-stretched and undermanned CID.

(And having been Mainstream Cyber Crime Trained, the flagship course for volume crime investigation, I would provide the reference but this did made me laugh -
Yers, You know I bang on about the banks, well a few years ago I contacted the CID in my area about the possibility of large scale fraud by a certain bank. Now in general it is civil, I know that, BUT, there's this little niggle about intent, that could lead it into the criminal side. Without going into too much detail if a contract was signed and the bank KNOWS, that in principle it cannot qualify for certain criteria and hide it and the contractor doesn't know and wasn't told and it is subsequently discovered, and it is also discovered that there was an intent at the culmination of the contract to demand further money, in my book that is Fraud. My MP was told about it and did pretty much nothing.

The response I got at was that Policy dictated what was investigated, and I know that's true from my side. As I keep pointing out, Policy is not the law. Indeed had not Mr Blair repealed the Banking act 1988 in 2005 the Banking fiasco of 2008 would have had a rather different complexion. Upon my request for Legal aid to be reopened back in the late nineties a certain Minister for Justice wrote and told me this was not in the public interest-as I had not provided further evidence that affected the case. So it does make one wonder who's side the legislators are on- not that we never knew. :cool:
 
#58
I can understand why internet fraud- indeed online crime in general- would be centralised: it obviously requires specialist skills and equipment to combat effectively.
Perhaps the call handlers and front desk staff need training in firstly, not telling the victims of such crimes that they’re not crimes, and secondly, contact details and information about Action Fraud.
Maybe an easier system would be for the staff receiving the call could either transfer it to Action Fraud, or log the details and forward them, telling the victim what they're doing.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#59
ETA the best way to make a million quid is steal a quid off a million people

How do I get into that game
Move to Lagos.
 
#60
I'm slightly surprised anyone was interested in it.
No on the police front, in that I haven't attempted to contact them again. It was clearly a massive waste of time, I'm being stonewalled. Does anyone have a contact number for the A-Team?

But a slight yes in that I've learned a bit more about the relevant procedure and about my complaint. I'll post a bit more later when I've got time.



As was/am I, although the suspected offence I'd reported is defined by statute as an offence.
I've been told that the Police don't record or provide CRNs for internet frauds, you have to report it to Action Fraud, who provide a CRN for every report, but they don't actually do anything about it.
Due to the volume of reports, a decision was made to establish Action Fraud. They take the complaint and provide the Crime Number, they review the case and see if there are any Lines of Enquiry (LOE). If there are LOE and a chance of locating an offender and prosecuting someone then it is allocated back to a Police Force to investigate.

This is due to the diminishing number of cops and the explosion of online fraud reports. It’s a form of triage and allocation.
 

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