I made a complaint to the Police. WTF is going on?

Write back to them and tell them you are a transgender and that you feel all hurt and abandoned over the issue. The CRN you want will be on your mat the following day.
 

MrBane

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In Scotland it's easy - under Scottish Crime Recording System a crime must be recorded if the complainer believes they have been they have been the victim of a crime other than where clear evidence exists to prove it did not happen or where a mobile phone is allegedly stolen but they cannot provide an IMEI number.

If you think you've been done a dis-service, complain and complain hard as they'll try to ignore you or fob you off.

Trust me, plenty of shit cnuts in this job too that we can't get rid of.
 

MrMemory

War Hero
Sounds like an issue the Police and Crime Commissioner would deal with. They are elected so have an incentive to respond.

"The role of the PCCs is to be the voice of the people and hold the police to account. They are responsible for the totality of policing."

Home - The Association of Police and Crime Commissioners
 
I find getting through to Police Scotland via 101 is far quicker than any English forces via 999.
The Scottish police don’t seem to fùck about as much either. Somebody doing over a construction site portacabin/syphoning diesel....English police- arrive 30 minutes later, blue lights flashing and park at the entrance waiting for someone to arrive and let them in- allowing the miscreants to make their escape in good time.
Jock plod- dog unit gains access through breach in fence and couple of vans discreetly nearby.
 

MrBane

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I find getting through to Police Scotland via 101 is far quicker than any English forces via 999.
The Scottish police don’t seem to fùck about as much either. Somebody doing over a construction site portacabin/syphoning diesel....English police- arrive 30 minutes later, blue lights flashing and park at the entrance waiting for someone to arrive and let them in- allowing the miscreants to make their escape in good time.
Jock plod- dog unit gains access through breach in fence and couple of vans discreetly nearby.
Ehhhh by ****, where was that because they're clearly not Glasgow cops. On a 91 which is a premises alarm, we like to roar up and run screaming into the building looking for a good chase and fling about. It's the only fun we get.

"POLICE! If anyone is in here, identify yourself now! If you jump out on me I'll kick your **** in!"

Followed by a cry of

"Draw batons!"

:D
 
Ehhhh by ****, where was that because they're clearly not Glasgow cops. On a 91 which is a premises alarm, we like to roar up and run screaming into the building looking for a good chase and fling about. It's the only fun we get.

"POLICE! If anyone is in here, identify yourself now! If you jump out on me I'll kick your **** in!"

Followed by a cry of

"Draw batons!"

:D
Last one from memory was Glasgae! Occurring concurrently with a similar shout in Birmingham. The contrast in what occurred, and results was quite noticeable.
 
Without knowing the full circumstances it is impossible to advise. You ain't daft though so have a read through this and see if you tick the right boxes:

http://www.met.police.uk/msctraining/documents/long_notes/lpg1_1_04_theftact1968_sn.pdf

You should at least get an incident number/crime number we used to give out the number if we attended anything involving suspected theft - it is just a bloody reference number. The grown ups used to decide if it was actioned, not actioned, or passed on to CID for 'in depth action'.

If you are not happy with your treatment do a well drafted letter of complaint, copies to: Chief Constable - better to address it directly to the Deputy Chief Constable as he is generally responsible for complaints and discipline, IOPC, HMICFRS, the local police authority, your local MP and the local TV station (just to put some stir into the mix).
 
I made a complaint to the IOPC, I got nowhere, I still haven't got a CRN,I still haven't got a reason why I haven't got a CRN.

I was told by the IOPC I'd received a "thorough rationale" for the police decision. I really haven't . I wrote back saying that, they've ignored it.
Contact your County Councillor/MP/both & ask them to find out why you are being flat out refused a crime number for a crime you reported & refused an explanation as to why.
Methinks your report went in the bin to keep uninvestigated crime numbers down.
 
In Scotland it's easy - under Scottish Crime Recording System a crime must be recorded if the complainer believes they have been they have been the victim of a crime other than where clear evidence exists to prove it did not happen or where a mobile phone is allegedly stolen but they cannot provide an IMEI number.

If you think you've been done a dis-service, complain and complain hard as they'll try to ignore you or fob you off.

Trust me, plenty of shit cnuts in this job too that we can't get rid of.
It's the same in England, under Section A of the Home Office Counting Rules for Recorded Crime.

"AN INCIDENT WILL BE RECORDED AS A CRIME (NOTIFIABLE OFFENCE) FOR ‘VICTIM RELATED’ OFFENCES IF, ON THE BALANCE OF PROBABILITY:
(A) THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE VICTIMS REPORT AMOUNT TO A CRIME AS DEFINED BY LAW (THE POLICE WILL DETERMINE THIS, BASED ON THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF THE LAW AND COUNTING RULES); AND (B) THERE IS NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE.
A BELIEF BY THE VICTIM (OR A PERSON REASONABLY ASSUMED TO BE ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE VICTIM, THAT A CRIME HAS OCCURRED IS USUALLY SUFFICIENT TO JUSTIFY ITS RECORDING. "

I think the Police are using the 'their knowledge of the law' clause to say that black is white.

When a crime is recorded, are the details recorded on the Police National Computer system so that a report in Scotland might come to the attention of other UK Police Services?

One possibility is that the intention is to keep the names of the suspects off the computer system, but I don't know what's going on. They seem to have expended some effort on it, but that effort was only in fabricating excuses for the incident, they haven't actually mentioned what I'd complained about.

The funny handshake fraternity is involved, which probably isn't a good sign.

Contact your County Councillor/MP/both & ask them to find out why you are being flat out refused a crime number for a crime you reported & refused an explanation as to why.
Methinks your report went in the bin to keep uninvestigated crime numbers down.
Contacted my MP (Labour). The reply was to the effect that I'd already complained to the Police and the IOPC and he wasn't going to do anything.
 
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MrBane

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When a crime is recorded, are the details recorded on the Police National Computer system so that a report in Scotland might come to the attention of other UK Police Services?

One possibility is that the intention is to keep the names of the suspects off the computer system, but I don't know what's going on.

The funny handshake fraternity is involved, which probably isn't a good sign.
Negative.

In Police Scotland, we have a variety of legacy reporting systems, none of which talk to each other.

In my Division and several others, we have Crime Management System. Anything I create on this system cannot be accessed by any other Force anywhere in the country. It's the same as if we get an out of Force enquiry from say, Thames Valley. They basically copy and paste their report and email it to us. Vice-versa if we want them to action something for us.

PNC has nothing to do with crime reporting. It only records the number of previous convictions and pending cases, plus any other related information. The chap could be a named suspect on 100 Crime Reports and you'd never know by looking at their PNC record.

As for keeping people's names off of the Crime Report, that's easy - just don't put them on. There's nothing stopping me from raising a Crime Report and putting suspect as unknown. It means I can sit on it and wait until I'm happy my suspect is my suspect before I back myself into a corner. Doesn't affect the investigation at all, and it's a very common practice. Once a suspect is named, the pressure ramps up to get a result, which is a ******* pain in the hoop.

So, no.

They probably just can't be fucked taking a crime report from you mate. It happens all the time.

Having said that, some people do report utter pish!

At the very least, you should be given an incident number that will show you've reported it to the Police. It's not the same as a crime report - it's just the reference number for the log of your call.

If you're talking about reporting a fraud that's occurred, say, online, then it will go most probably, like this:

1. Cop gets hit with the incident
2. Tries to avoid raising a Crime Report because it's going to be a waste of time
3. Ends up having to raise a Crime Report because the Complainer has, eh, complained about not getting a Crime Report raised
4, Goes and gets all the relevant details, statements, bank statements, transactions records, etc, etc, etc (takes a few weeks)
5. Submits a Cycomms application to ascertain where the online activity originated from
6. Gets ignored by the various agencies he's sent the Request for Information to
7. Tries again
8. Maybe gets an IP or something
9. Submits another Cycomms report for that
10. Gets ignored again
11. Maybe, somehow, months in, manages to get an address that belongs to the IP used
12. Runs various checks on the address to establish who lives there
13. If it's in Force, goes and visits, if it's out of Force, submits a request for assistance
14. Gets ignored
15. Several months later, external Force actions request and leads to...
16. Arrest on suspicion of suspect (either by an external Force or by themselves if the suspect lives in Force)
17. Goes to interview
18. Suspect makes no comment interview as advised by lawyers
19. Suspect released no further charges
20. Crime report closed
21. About a year and dozens of hours of police time wasted

Or if the cop really knows what they're doing:

1. Raises Crime Report from the get go
2. Submits a Cycomms application
3. Comes back with no information
4. Closes investigation and updates Complainer to say there was no evidence to trace back to a suspect

Tadaaa!

Alas, for the greater public, there's a belief we investigate everything. We honestly can't. We'd break. So often, even when a Crime Report is taken, nothing or very little is done with it. Crimes have to be prioritised. Unfortunately, as most Forces won't admit this publicly, it's the cops who prioritise their workload, and will actively dyke shit calls that are a waste of time / not in the public interest to pursue.

Harsh, but the government needs to invest more if people want the full service.
 
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In my 11 year experience of working for a Home Office led law enforcement agency is that the Law is for plebs to follow but not for the powers that be or other public bodies to adhere to if they can't be arsed.

How often is the Home Secretary found in contempt of Court? Rather too often.
 

LimaOscar

Swinger
OP, unless you have endless hours and patience to follow this up, I'd let it drop. Or write a 'strongly worded letter' to your local paper, to warn others. Of the potential theft.
Going back to ancient times, when a trivial or blind alley incident was reported, our favourite phrase to write beside it in the Occurrence Book was NFPA. No further police action. It was included in the stats, but we used our discretion, as to whether police resources were applied. Typically, was used in a knock for knock, non injury traffic accident.
(The Occurrence Book was a huge hard bound book which sat in every police station enquiry desk and everything reported to police, was entered into it. Typically, it would be signed off by each shift's Inspector and the station / local area commander daily. This was typical where I served)
We had to do this where possible, because otherwise individually, we'd have been juggling 50-100 investigation files, instead of merely 20-40 + (In my force, constables investigated incidents often requiring an Inspector in other forces)
Fast forward thirty years, where anecdotally, police morale is a lot lower, paperwork more onerous, resources much tighter and more work having to be done by fewer officers. If the system didn't have one or two 'pressure release valves', it would stop working. Hence prioritising of police resources towards violent crime, or anything linked to terrorism. If, as we know, crimes not involving violence will not be investigated, as a policy choice, then out of necessity, the crime figures must be 'managed' to avoid public outcry. A large number of serious crimes are committed by a small number of criminals, with a very high reoffending rate. So, it makes sense to focus your ever more scarce police resources on the crimes with higher visibility and or involve violence, because the clear up rate isn't as hard to manipulate.
Unless it's obvious that a large number of victims or a large amount of money is involved, the police won't want to know. And, if it falls outside their priority crimes, they won’t want to officially acknowledge it, by making a record of it. It's the necessity which helps create the illusion that the police are still there for us, as they always were.
Sadly, it's not the case. But, don't blame the police. They're simply doing what they can, given the situation in which they find themselves. Or rather. They're doing what the Home Office tells them to do.
 
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SNIP

The funny handshake fraternity is involved, which probably isn't a good sign.



Contacted my MP (Labour). The reply was to the effect that I'd already complained to the Police and the IOPC and he wasn't going to do anything.
@Onetap,

Disclaimer: I am a member of the "funny handshake fraternity".

It appears as if you have already exhausted any official complaints channel. Perhaps your next (only?) option is to approach the Press. I would suggest finding an investigative journalist or publication (possibly Private Eye).

Whithin Freemasonry, it is frowned upon to gain advantage from being a Mason (either from dodgy dealing or by protecting someone), perhaps UGLE might be interested if you have specific and credible evidence. United Grand Lodge of England - General Enquiries

Would you be able to give general details of the type of scam you were subjected to?
 
@Onetap,

Disclaimer: I am a member of the "funny handshake fraternity".

It appears as if you have already exhausted any official complaints channel. Perhaps your next (only?) option is to approach the Press. I would suggest finding an investigative journalist or publication (possibly Private Eye).

Whithin Freemasonry, it is frowned upon to gain advantage from being a Mason (either from dodgy dealing or by protecting someone), perhaps UGLE might be interested if you have specific and credible evidence. United Grand Lodge of England - General Enquiries
I've have no reason to suppose that any of the brethren have done anything wrong, it's just that they have an image problem with how they are perceived by the public. It's probably like finding out the financial adviser controlling your investments is a Nigerian.

Some odd things have happened that I don't understand. It may be corruption, it may not.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Any news on this ?
 
I missed this thread but when it was posted it wouldn’t have been massively interesting to me anyway.
But since then, my brother has been the victim of what I guess is a relatively common crime- card fraud / theft. So far, so humdrum.
The interesting thing was- similar to this- the wall of disinterest he found in reporting the crime. In fact I think he was told at one point that no crime had been committed! He got his £1500 back but is still irked by the fact that someone out there also got £1500 gratis, with no apparent danger of being punished.
 
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Any news on this ?
I'm slightly surprised anyone was interested in it.
No on the police front, in that I haven't attempted to contact them again. It was clearly a massive waste of time, I'm being stonewalled. Does anyone have a contact number for the A-Team?

But a slight yes in that I've learned a bit more about the relevant procedure and about my complaint. I'll post a bit more later when I've got time.

I missed this thread but when it was posted it wouldn’t have been massively interesting to me anyway.
But since then, my brother was the victim I guess a relatively common crime- card fraud / theft. So far, so humdrum.
The interesting thing was- similar to this- the wall of disinterest he found in reporting the crime. In fact I think he was told at one point that no crime had been committed! He got his £1500 back but is still irked by the fact that someone out there also got £1500 gratis, with no apparent danger of being punished.
As was/am I, although the suspected offence I'd reported is defined by statute as an offence.
I've been told that the Police don't record or provide CRNs for internet frauds, you have to report it to Action Fraud, who provide a CRN for every report, but they don't actually do anything about it.
 
I'm slightly surprised anyone was interested in it.
No on the police front, in that I haven't attempted to contact them again. It was clearly a massive waste of time, I'm being stonewalled. Does anyone have a contact number for the A-Team?

But a slight yes in that I've learned a bit more about the relevant procedure and about my complaint. I'll post a bit more later when I've got time.



As was/am I, although the suspected offence I'd reported is defined by statute as an offence.
I've been told that the Police don't record or provide CRNs for internet frauds, you have to report it to Action Fraud, who provide a CRN for every report, but they don't actually do anything about it.
What a bloody stupid system. it's almost as if they don't want what is becoming a major criminal issue to appear as such.
 

2ndpreimage

Old-Salt
On the basis of NCRS if on the balance of probabilities a crime has occurred the crime should be recorded (I think this was done to death earlier).

Action fraud is operated by City of London police (or was) and they will do the initial sift and then it will be sent to the policing organisation where the suspect is most likely to be. This is different to the normal rules where crimes are recorded where they occur. For obvious reasons most suspects are in proximity to their victims and that's where the evidence is, *historically*. Clearly not the case for this.

The crime gets NFAd if there are no further lines of enquiry and no suspects. Hence why this gets filled in the bin. The rest of it and the IOPC....I can't comment. But it would be a lie if I said I was surprised. Fornwhat it's worth the view from the other side of the fence from many is depression and embarrassment. I'm sorry that doesn't help you.
 

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