Army Rumour Service

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

"I know my place" - Marxism and reinforcing class boundaries

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I was just posting on the National Trust thread and commenting about people being deterred from bettering themselves.

It brought me to a certain thought.

The Labour Party runs, at the moment, on jealousy - why should someone have something that you don't.

But it goes further than that. There's a lot of virtue-signalling on social media about being 'working class' or 'not betraying my working-class roots'.

Any concept of social mobility is scorned - especially by those who've 'made it'.

The problem is that many of those in the upper reaches of the Labour Party are from comfortable middle-class backgrounds. Yet any aspiration is 'traitorous'.

So, the supposed party of aspiration is the party which is the one least keen on aspiration.

How can it ever claim to be the party of working people.


...just some jumbled thoughts, put up for discussion.
 
I have/had every intention of bettering myself and it is one reason why I would never vote Labour. I have worked hard for what I have and am a long way from my Farming roots that go back hundreds of years.

That process started when I saw I could earn more than my Dad, the Army showed that you could become better than you thought you were and on leaving I am now in the comfortably lower middle class, the sort that Labour despise as I am no longer toiling in the fields.

If you ask my teachers they would have said I have exceeded expectations. Labour despise people like me because we are the people that should vote for them but will never do so because what Labour peddle as their doctrine is "You are working class and you will stay there" well bollocks to that.
 
I was just posting on the National Trust thread and commenting about people being deterred from bettering themselves.

It brought me to a certain thought.

The Labour Party runs, at the moment, on jealousy - why should someone have something that you don't.

But it goes further than that. There's a lot of virtue-signalling on social media about being 'working class' or 'not betraying my working-class roots'.

Any concept of social mobility is scorned - especially by those who've 'made it'.

The problem is that many of those in the upper reaches of the Labour Party are from comfortable middle-class backgrounds. Yet any aspiration is 'traitorous'.

So, the supposed party of aspiration is the party which is the one least keen on aspiration.

How can it ever claim to be the party of working people.


...just some jumbled thoughts, put up for discussion.
I come from a working class background, there was very little money when I was growing up and life on a scheme wasn't really all that great. Thankfully through the efforts of my parents and some graft on my own part I'm now in a very comfortable position. Am I proud of my working class roots? Yes. Am I proud that I was able to manage a bit of social mobility? Very much so, my children will grow up not having to go without and I won't have to worry about having enough money in the electricity meter to make it to Friday.

Do the Labour party dislike social mobility? Probably, they seem to think anyone earning over a certain amount is automatically evil incarnate and that everyone should sit somewhere closer together in the income brackets regardless of you flipping burgers or performing heart surgery. You quite rightly point out their hypocrisy in this regards. Though I would argue that Labour is currently two parties masquerading as one. The champagne socialist side, which is currently in the driving seat and the communists lead (until recently) by magic grandpa.

Re the social distaste of upward mobility, it's always been the case and always will be. Tall poppy syndrome, it's just out and out jealousy. I get stick all the time from folk I grew up with because of my anglicised weegie accent. Living down South tends to do that to you and a nasally East Glasgow twang doesn't really sit well when meeting with the big wigs.
 
Last edited:
I was just posting on the National Trust thread and commenting about people being deterred from bettering themselves.

It brought me to a certain thought.

The Labour Party runs, at the moment, on jealousy - why should someone have something that you don't.

But it goes further than that. There's a lot of virtue-signalling on social media about being 'working class' or 'not betraying my working-class roots'.

Any concept of social mobility is scorned - especially by those who've 'made it'.

The problem is that many of those in the upper reaches of the Labour Party are from comfortable middle-class backgrounds. Yet any aspiration is 'traitorous'.

So, the supposed party of aspiration is the party which is the one least keen on aspiration.

How can it ever claim to be the party of working people.


...just some jumbled thoughts, put up for discussion.

We both need to check our white privilege. ;)
 

Daz

LE
I was just posting on the National Trust thread and commenting about people being deterred from bettering themselves.

It brought me to a certain thought.

The Labour Party runs, at the moment, on jealousy - why should someone have something that you don't.

But it goes further than that. There's a lot of virtue-signalling on social media about being 'working class' or 'not betraying my working-class roots'.

Any concept of social mobility is scorned - especially by those who've 'made it'.

The problem is that many of those in the upper reaches of the Labour Party are from comfortable middle-class backgrounds. Yet any aspiration is 'traitorous'.

So, the supposed party of aspiration is the party which is the one least keen on aspiration.

How can it ever claim to be the party of working people.


...just some jumbled thoughts, put up for discussion.
The Socialists/Communists have never been the party of social mobility, their entire power structure have always been built around the politics of envy centred around the idea of designating various groups as an "Enemy of the people" to provide the masses with a target to "hate"

Formally, this would of been based on class or social standing, such as the Kulaks in Russia who where effectively upper working class, lower middle class and woe betide anyone who had the temerity to become one when all good workers should be happy with what the state provides. That mindset is still prevalent today amongst the left, including a large segment of the Labour party, the only real change is that instead of targeting people and groups based on class or social standing, they've added race and colour into the mix - the targets change, but the rhetoric and concepts remain the same.
 

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
My education got screwed courtesy of the Labour Government "comprehensive education" social experiment of the early 1960s. Comprehensive education in my town was a race to mediocrity. Otherwise I'd have been able to go to a grammar school and probably done somewhat better than I did.

Nonetheless, I realised that by grafting, I would be able to get to university, courtesy of a full grant [remember them?] It was the best route out of the sinkhole town where I lived. I was the first of my immediate family to go to university. A sinkhole and a solid 20,000+ Labour majority - a party that have done nothing for the town.

Parents had little money, we lived in a council house, and I had a Downs Syndrome sister who needed 24/7 care which restricted my mum being able to work.

I graduated with an engineering degree - no debts but no money. Worked my way up from there. Not been out of work in 38 years [since I left university]. I've worked 50+ hours a week for the past 20 years and should be able to retire in reasonable comfort in about 2.5 years.

Both our kids are at university doing proper subjects. I'm hoping that they will get more opportunities to better themselves than I had.

Why should I be paid the same as a binman?

Labour and socialism? I shit it.

[/off rant]
 
The politics of envy and do as I say not as I do, is sadly hardwired into the Labour Party. Much Like the above posts my family roots are 'Working Class', in that we all primarily work for a living, and aspired to better ourselves. Thus a merchant banker to my mind earns his crust by working, as does a builders labourer.

It is how we carry ourselves and act sociality that more defines what class we are, and is where I classify others and myself within the class system.

The political sphere conflates class with earnings, I have known and worked for many who have loads of dosh but no class... Money cannot buy it.
 
The Labour Party runs, at the moment, on jealousy - why should someone have something that you don't.
On HIGNFY a couple of weeks ago, the Labour smearing of Rishi Sunak came up - showing his success, his home, his wealth etc. Baroness Warsi (in a very humorous way) pointed out that this would backfire, as he would be seen as a role model across Asian communities.
 
Last edited:
The only time Labour got re-elected was when Tony Blair basically wore the Conservative's clothes and continued with their manifesto . People felt financially better off , myself included ( still didn't vote for them , though ) and Mondeo Man was born , yet the Left hate him with an absolute passion .
The left want everyone mired in their own filth , and simply cannot believe that the majority of the country don't support them .
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
I can sum up ths Labour Party in two words.

Magic Grandpa.
 

RedDinger

Old-Salt
My income and job would put me in the Upper Middle Class by the accepted definitions. But I'm not sure how to betray my working class roots.
Apart from voting Tory and drinking wine, what exactly is does it mean?
 
by grafting, I would be able to get to university, courtesy of a full grant
How very socialist. Expecting others to pay for your education.
 
Inasmuch as the Left Wing of the Labour Party and all other leftie political groups bemoan the 'Class System' (something that the Right don't really bother with) it is a tad ironic that the existence of a Class system is absolutely essential for their Class warfare to continue.
 

Daz

LE
Inasmuch as the Left Wing of the Labour Party and all other leftie political groups bemoan the 'Class System' (something that the Right don't really bother with) it is a tad ironic that the existence of a Class system is absolutely essential for their Class warfare to continue.
Not any more Comrade, now we have race, gender & sexuality grievances to exploit :)
 
Do the Labour party dislike social mobility? Probably, they seem to think anyone earning over a certain amount is automatically evil incarnate and that everyone should sit somewhere closer together in the income brackets regardless of you flipping burgers or performing heart surgery.

Yet Labour MPs, most of whom these days have never held down a decent job in the 'real world' outside of politics, are on better pay than those of us from their heartland who actually do the work.
 
Yet Labour MPs, most of whom these days have never held down a decent job in the 'real world' outside of politics, are on better pay than those of us from their heartland who actually do the work.
Shush, they know what's best for you. Just like their SNP counterparts.
 
How very socialist. Expecting others to pay for your education.


However, by now having a career that ensured he paid higher taxes (due to his greater earning power) over the years he has probably paid more back in to the system than he ever got out of it by taking advantage of the full state university grant.

I was brought up in one of the most disadvantaged areas in the UK, a place called Cantril Farm in Knowsley on the outskirts of Liverpool - a sink estate sh*thole in every sense of the word. Because I liked reading, science and engineering and wanted to be in the RN I studied hard and was able to go to a grammar school on merit. (I never took the 11-plus, Knowsley Borough Council education services didn't believe in it (Labour controlled) and so if you went to school in that area in the late 70's / early 80's you were condemned to the educational equivalent of the seventh level of hell). Whilst my peers around me sank into their own particular cesspools of drug abuse, thievery, thuggery and apathy I was bullied at school for reading books when they thought I should have been shiving my classmates or indulging in mindless vandalism. I escaped into the educational safety of Liverpool City Council education services by being transferred over the Knowsley borough border to a Liverpool grammar school to save me from that bullying (by a headmaster that realised I was going nowhere educationally in his school).

Unfortunately I never did quite get the knack of making 2 + 2 = 4 so despite earning 11 O-levels and 4 A-levels my mathematics and physics results weren't good enough for the RN Engineering Officer school at HMS Sultan so the door on that career was well and truly closed. Once again I was saved by a teacher that recognised that I had a talent for describing and understanding the physical world and I ended up taking a degree course in Geology. Like @RBMK I was able to take advantage of a full university grant (means tested obviously, my father having come from a long line of "working class" site labourers whilst my mother drifted into the female family history of nursing / care home assistant) and I too was the first in my entire family (maternal and paternal sides) to go to university.

I earned a 2:1 (Honours) in Geology (during which I was able to study subjects in Geomorpholgy, Geophysics, Physical and Chemical Oceanography, Physics and Astrophysics) which allowed me to apply for, and win, a NERC scholarship (another state handout) to study at Master's level. This led to another scholarship to study at PhD level (again another state handout).

Now after 20 years of travelling / working all over the world for very reputable oilfield service companies and getting paid very handsomely for that work (and taxed accordingly too, again paying in far more than I ever received in student grant handouts and thus enabling other students to take advantage of the same system) would I consider myself socially mobile? Am I still "Working Class" or am I now "Middle Class"?

Whatever I am it wasn't down to the Labour Party's "support" of aspiration, it was education, pure and simple (and a lot of hard graft studying).


(Edited for further explanation)
 
Last edited:
However, by now having a career that ensured he paid higher taxes (due to his greater earning power) over the years he has probably paid more back in to the system than he ever got out of it by taking advantage of the full state university grant.

I was brought up in one of the most disadvantaged areas in the UK, a place called Cantril Farm in Knowsley on the outskirts of Liverpool - a sink estate sh*thole in every sense of the word. Because I liked reading, science and engineering and wanted to be in the RN I studied hard and was able to go to a grammar school on merit. (I never took the 11-plus, Knowsley Borough Council education services didn't believe in it (Labour controlled) and so if you went to school in that area in the late 70's / early 80's you were condemned to the educational equivalent of the seventh level of hell). Whilst my peers around me sank into their own particular cesspools of drug abuse, thievery, thuggery and apathy I was bullied at school for reading books when they thought I should have been shiving my classmates or indulging in mindless vandalism. I escaped into the educational safety of Liverpool City education services by being transferred over the Knowsley borough border to a Liverpool grammar school to save me from that bullying (by a headmaster that realised I was going nowhere educationally in his school).

Unfortunately I never did quite get the knack of making 2 + 2 = 4 so despite earning 11 O-level passes and 4 A-levels my mathematics and physics results weren't good enough for the RN Engineering Officer school at HMS Sultan so the door on that career was well and truly closed. Once again I was saved by a teacher that recognised that I had a talent for describing and understanding the physical world and I ended up taking a degree course in Geology. Like RBMK I was able to take advantage of a full university grant and I too was the first in my entire family (maternal and paternal sides) to go to university (my father having come from a long line of "working class" site labourers whilst my mother drifted into the female family history of nursing / care home assistant).

I earned a 2:1 (Honours) in Geology (during which I was able to study subjects in Geomorpolgy, Geophysics, Physical and Chemical Oceanography, Physics and Astrophysics) which allowed me to apply for, and win, a NERC scholarship (another state handout) to study at Master's level. This led to another scholarship to study at PhD level (again another state handout).

Now after 20 years of travelling / working all over the world for very reputable oilfield service companies and getting paid very handsomely for that work (and taxed accordingly too) would I consider myself socially mobile? Am I still "Working Class" or am I now "Middle Class"?

Whatever I am it wasn't down to the Labour Party's "support" of aspiration, it was education, pure and simple (and a lot of hard graft studying).
So you have got rich and bettered yourself through an education others paid for?
 
Last edited:

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
I was just posting on the National Trust thread and commenting about people being deterred from bettering themselves.

It brought me to a certain thought.

The Labour Party runs, at the moment, on jealousy - why should someone have something that you don't.

But it goes further than that. There's a lot of virtue-signalling on social media about being 'working class' or 'not betraying my working-class roots'.

Any concept of social mobility is scorned - especially by those who've 'made it'.

The problem is that many of those in the upper reaches of the Labour Party are from comfortable middle-class backgrounds. Yet any aspiration is 'traitorous'.

So, the supposed party of aspiration is the party which is the one least keen on aspiration.

How can it ever claim to be the party of working people.


...just some jumbled thoughts, put up for discussion.
nope , i dont think you are correct . In the labour Party that I belong to it's the aim to lift everyone to their full potential and help everyone get a fair bite of the "apple" Corbyn supported large and small businesses as he felt as long as they were contributing the the nations well being that was ok, those who paid low wages and no taxes were the target. Also if people can afford by the strength of their hard work to send kids to privates school , good on 'em .
 

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
How very socialist. Expecting others to pay for your education.
I've paid for my education more than a hundred times over in direct taxation [PAYE, Corporation tax etc], even at today's £9,250 per year rate.

I also self-financed my own MPhil, which cost me £450 per year in 1988, whilst earning about £9,000 per year.

I am totally against the industrialisation of education. A door opened by a certain Anthony Blair.
 

Latest Threads

Top