I know how to save the the govenment £1.2 billion

So the Labour party's answer to our spirialing crime rates and overcrowded jails is to build bigger "Titan" jails and buy another prison ship to be berthed off the isle of Portland.
Well thats yours and my tax being used to ensure that lags have all the comforts that they "deserve" after mugging 80 year old ladies or fiddling with kids

So maybe the govenment should consider the following:

1. Opt out of the Human Rights Act and treat prisoners like the scum that they are

2. Life means Life- not freed after a couple of years of basket weaving and attending the prison chapel

3. Bring back the death penalty - forensics nowadays can nail someone years after the crime hence tobin now behid bars

4. Cap immigration - "to little to late" we let people in to our country illegally "because we are spending £1.2 billion on jails" lets spend it on border control these people have come from countries were human life means little and will stick a knife in you rather than sey "hello"

4. Take away their "comforts" :

a. Quilts, after the almagamations of the early 90s the must be a shit load of army blankets in a store somewere give them to the B******* . Even 1 week under a Army blanket will break the strongest will.
b. TVs - do lags pay for a TV licience, probably not however the lads who live in the blocks have to have one for each room (another way that the government "looks after" its troops) so take them away
c. Lock them up for 23 hours in an overcrowded cell - why are they entitled to fresh air when the poor victim is probably 6 feet under
d. Give them enough rations to live on none of this healthy stuff they are not there for the health benifits
e. Get them doing hard labour
f. Dont let them smoke take it away from them
g. Why do they have privliges lags should have nothing when behind bars except a piss pot, a bed (with Army blankets), and minimum rations

having spoke to a couple of people who have been inside they say its the easiest time of there life, 3 square meals a day, a roof over their heads and a bit of money in their pocket

So what the Labour party needs to do is spend the money elsewhere make life in jail unbearable and make it what it use to be a PUNISHMENT to DETER people from commiting crimes


1) Rather than opt out, what we need is a 'Human Responsibilities' Act, which sets out which behaviour / actions forfeits you which rights.

It should also provide for a restoration of those rights dependent on your actions.

e.g. Get sent to prison, lose your 'rights' to TV. Pass an educational course and get access for 1/2 hr per day.

I personally think the Victorians wre on the right track as far a prisons are concerned.

Hard bed, hard board, hard labour. In the last part of the 19th century, after the 1865 Prisons Act and under Assistant Director of Prisons Sir Edmund du Cane, prisons were made even tougher. Hard plank beds replaced hammocks, food was deliberately boring and inmates had to work hard on the monotonous, even pointless tasks.

Sourced from the National archive...

Do we really have a deterant now?

Course you would still get the whining Civil Liberties brigade harping on about How we should all feel so sorry for em. Its not there fault you know.
Very true MSR, the Human Rights act is too often used by convicts to demand luxuries. Human rights as you say should be renamed to better fit a new view of it, what it embodies should be available to all law abiding members of society. However if you steal, defraud, assault or murder somebody why should you be entitled to the rights of the majority? They have just proven they are not fit to be productive members or society. Therefore punishment as a deterrent, hard labour and harsh living. Im not condoning beatings and sleeping in hypothermia inducing conditions, but why should they sue the government for peoples tax money because they feel bad about having to crap in a bucket.

Also people have an obsession with us having the highest prison population in Europe. Well if people commit crimes they have to be punished, only way to punish them is to provide a permanent deterrent, not microwaves in their cells. But hey that’s the bleeding heart liberals for you.

The BBC had a program a few years back following homeless people in London and one of them summed up the prison service, back in the 60s homeless people were scared as hell to go to prison, now days they start fights to spend winter in jail with dinner menus and TVs in their cells.

Edit to add - Im all for rehabilitation and strongly believe in it, but only after the sentence has been served in full. Big feck off stick then a carrot you could say.
Food for thought........

Danish prisons: dinner for wife and kids

by Nick Pearce, director,
New Statesman - 04 September 2006

By the end of the next parliament, the number of people locked up in England and Wales is likely to reach 100,000. That's twice as many people in prison compared to a decade or so ago. Already top of the western European incarceration league, we are now heading firmly towards a US-style mass penal system.

I put that fact to the Danish justice minister last week, while filming a piece on criminal justice. A conservative in a centre-right coalition, she looked incredulous. Her country imprisons people at roughly half the UK rate. It does all it can to keep people out of jail, and once there, to prepare them for life back in the community. Its sentences are short, but its reoffending rates far lower. In Denmark, prison appears to work for the right reasons.

We visited Ringe state prison, on the island of Funen, to find out what conditions are like. Barely visible behind a wall sunken into the bleak, flat landscape, Ringe is a high-security prison for offenders who have committed serious crimes such as murder and armed robbery. But beyond the CCTV and high-tech surveillance equipment, Ringe is far removed from the Victorian panopticons of the British prison system.

Prisoners live in small units with communal kitchens. They cook daily meals for themselves and their wardens with food purchased twice a week from a branch of the local Spar supermarket set up inside the main building. Ringe is a mixed-sex prison and married couples live in a special wing. Children can live with their parents in prison until the age of three. Sex between inmates is permitted if wardens are convinced that the relationship is serious. There is a special drug-free unit in a small outbuilding, and all prisoners can access drug treatment services.

Each day, inmates are woken up at seven to go to workshops, to clean and do their laundry, or study for exams. The idea is that prison existence should approximate normal life where possible. When Ringe prisoners are discharged into the community, they are offered a place to live, an income in return for work or education, and a contact to call if they think they are at risk of getting into trouble.

Ringe is a small prison, but its ethos is not untypical of Denmark's liberal penal regime. Rooted in the progressive consensus forged by the social-democratic governments of the 20th century, this regime embodies the powerful Nordic combination of strong community and permissive liberalism. Politicians of all parties assent to the basic ideals of a criminal justice system in which prison is reserved for public protection and orientated towards treating people with humanity. Those with mental health problems or addictions get treatment, not punitive justice.

But Denmark also holds surprises for the liberal observer. Until 1970, violent sex offenders were surgically castrated. Today, repeatedly violent sex offenders can be detained indefinitely. In certain cases, they are offered a programme of treatment which combines psychotherapy with anti-hormonal injections that reduce testosterone levels to pre-pubescent levels. It appears remarkably effective: reoffending is limited to petty crimes.

Denmark's liberalism has been under pressure in recent years. One in five prisoners is now a foreign national, in a country that has passed some of Europe's most draconian immigration laws and remains fiercely protective of its sense of nationhood. Crimes of violence have risen, despite a falling rate of total recorded crimes. The prison population has grown.

Yet Denmark's basic progressive consensus remains intact. Crime is still viewed as a social problem, not simply as an individual pathology. As inequality breeds violence and crime, so an egalitarian country such as Denmark, with a strong welfare state, resists pressures towards social breakdown and mass imprisonment.

Dostoevsky said you can judge a civilisation on entering its prisons. To be a truly civilised country, Britain needs to learn a few lessons from its Danish cousins.
Nick Pearce is Director of IPPR

Link to Nick Pearce reporting for newsnight on Danish prisons: www.news.bbc.co.uk/newsnight


War Hero
Lock the door, Blanket on the ground, bread and water once a day. Why do they get a better xmas dinner than a lot of OAPs, in fact why do they end up with a better life than a lot of their victims
I would also propose that conviction of a crime results in the award of a MINIMUM sentence, whereas the law only provides for maximum sentences now

Of course, the Judge can award any tarriff, subject to the minima and maxima... but conviction of crime X should result in a sentence of at least Y
Prison on the United Kingdom should be a place where crims will NOT want to end up.

Prisoners should be set sentences which can be extended for insubordination or other internal offences within the prison without further referral to the courts.

Concurrent sentencing should be abolished,I.E. 58 counts of mugging at 6 months a pop will result in a sentence of 29 years.

Penal servitude should be re-introduced,with for the worst offenders up to 16 hours a day(7 days a week) digging coal by hand,or something equally strenous.

Convicted criminals should have NO access to lawyers.Visiting rights for all prisoners should be earned and not be a right.

General prison conditions should be austere at best.

Use of drugs or a positive drugs test within a prison should automatically carry the death penalty.

Prison riots or seiges should be broken with maximum force.Rooftop protesters should be shot on sight.
Work the hot bed system , each scroat gets 8 hours in bed then moves over to hard labour to let the next one in.
Prison over crowding solved in one easy stroke , we could then lock three times as many of the scum away.
we `ve tried this system and it does nt work ,liberalism is whats wrong with this country now ,appeasing criminals doesnt work.liberalism is being tried in schools now ,and looks whats happening ,class rooms full of unruly kids not getting an education,100,000 kids playing traunt evryday,and its led to the highest number of children killing children with knives or guns ever recorded,liberalism has led to highest crime rate ever ,liberalism has been tried and has failed badly!
Put prisoners on treadmills like they had in victorian times. They could turn an electric generator to provide free electricity to needy pensioners
gundog said:
Put prisoners on treadmills like they had in victorian times. They could turn an electric generator to provide free electricity to needy pensioners
This idea has merit.
in a word bollocks
having worked with ex crims some old time lags and the usual dross they get used to it .
they don't think about the consequences of there actions
Some worry about getting caught
a lot are so off there face at the time it wouldn't have mattered

lock them up sober them up and equip them to cope in the "real world" before you let them out again

not cause they deserve another chance
but the majority of prisoners are going to get out so make sure they don't go back it.
somebody who can't cope with life outside is going back inside and may hurt decent people on his way back inside
colchester works
now make a regime like colly but for civvy wasters and your onto a winner
amazing__lobster said:
I think the Danish system sounds better than any of the suggestions thus far.
It makes about as much sense as trying to change Scotland's Booze and Blades culture into European-style, have-a-glass-of-wine-with-your-meal.

Set up a French style pavement cafe in Glasgow and the local mutants will drink all the booze, stab the waiters, rape the waitresses(or vice-versa)and burn the cafe to the ground. Then p1ss on the ashes.

One size does not fit all; different countries have different cultures. What(appears)to work in Denmark will NOT work in the UK; we have a hard-core minority of SCUM who must first be broken before they can be rehabilitated.

Make prison so unpleasent that the average scumbag would rather commit suicide than commit another crime. Then you'll see a much safer and more just society.

Rant ends.

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