I Dont Know. The cheek of some people!

#1
There you go, you can beat yourself to death these days and your family expects compensation.

Families of slain Iraqis take case to Lords

LONDON (Reuters) - Families of six Iraqis killed by British forces will appeal to the Lords on Tuesday in the hope of winning the right to sue the government under European human rights laws.

Lawyers are seeking to persuade the Lords to overturn a ruling that European human rights laws adopted in Britain do not apply in Iraq.

"If we win this case, there will be a human rights obligation on our government to ensure an independent investigation into these issues," Shami Chakrabarti, director of rights group Liberty, told a news conference on Monday.

"This is about holding government and the highest levels of the military properly to account in a democracy."

One of the six, 26 year-old Baha Musa, died in British custody of 93 separate injuries after being hooded and subjected to beatings. The other five were civilian casualties of combat.

The families' lawyers argue that all six were deprived of the right to life under the human rights act, and Musa was also deprived of the right not to be tortured.

The Ministry of Defence says the human rights act does not apply outside Britain. It has prosecuted soldiers for Musa's death under other laws, and argues that the five other cases were a result of legitimate combat incidents.
In Musa's case, one British soldier has already pleaded guilty to mistreating prisoners and is awaiting sentencing. Six other soldiers had charges dropped at trial or were acquitted.

Britain has held two other high profile courts martial in cases of Iraqis who died in British custody, but those collapsed with no convictions.

The criminal trials "were a shamble and a farce," said lawyer Phil Shiner, who has represented several Iraqi civilians in cases against the British government. The Lords decision is expected in late June or July, Shiner said.
 
#2
western said:
The criminal trials "were a shamble and a farce," said lawyer Phil Shiner, who has represented several Iraqi civilians in cases against the British government. The Lords decision is expected in late June or July, Shiner said.
My bold. Represented, but not won any.

Hmm.
 
#3
DontMentionTheWar said:
western said:
The criminal trials "were a shamble and a farce," said lawyer Phil Shiner, who has represented several Iraqi civilians in cases against the British government. The Lords decision is expected in late June or July, Shiner said.
My bold. Represented, but not won any.

Hmm.
I'm sure its a nice little earner for him win or lose
 
#4
Sad to say, Iraqi nationals have not had a good time in UK courts to date.
 
#5
How long till the family's of the 700 odd Argentinians killed in the Falklands come knocking on the UK's door asking for their compensation. They were after all deprived of their 'right to life'

Perhaps next time someone will read these bloody things first and think before signing on the dotted line.

Maybe it should read 'the right to life (unless we're at war with you, then you're fair game)' just so there's no confusion.
 
#7
Enlighten me?
 
#9
Totally agree, I thought that I had missed an actual Court Case.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
western said:
Enlighten me?
I think he means that our boys never actually see an Iraqi courtroom before sentence is passed.
 
#11
The relatives of Baha Musa shouldn't have to go to court we messed up
they should see justice.
The others if they were innocent bystanders an apology and compensation after a swift investigation is all that is needed
 
#12
Just to put the record straight. I am not being a bleeding heart liberal on this one but I do feel that 'justice' has served anyone particularily well over there.
 
#14
DontMentionTheWar said:
western said:
The criminal trials "were a shamble and a farce," said lawyer Phil Shiner, who has represented several Iraqi civilians in cases against the British government. The Lords decision is expected in late June or July, Shiner said.
My bold. Represented, but not won any.

Hmm.
Who is paying for Mr Shiner; is it Ms Chakrabati and her organisation, some other organisation or is he on No Win/No fee basis?
 
#15
rickshaw-major said:
DontMentionTheWar said:
western said:
The criminal trials "were a shamble and a farce," said lawyer Phil Shiner, who has represented several Iraqi civilians in cases against the British government. The Lords decision is expected in late June or July, Shiner said.
My bold. Represented, but not won any.

Hmm.
Who is paying for Mr Shiner; is it Ms Chakrabati and her organisation, some other organisation or is he on No Win/No fee basis?
Well guessed, Liberty have published some of the SIB Photographic supplement showing Musa's facial injuries so it's roll up and jump on the bandwagon time. Again I suspect that the family will be the losers in this case.
 
#16
intli said:
How many compensation claims have the Yanks paid out?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2055494,00.html

The ACLU released a total of 496 files: 479 from Iraq and 17 from Afghanistan. Of the 496 claims, the ACLU said, 164 incidents resulted in cash payments to family members.......

According to the New York Times, the US has paid out more than $32m in compensation for civilian deaths, injuries and property damage.
 
#17
western said:
rickshaw-major said:
DontMentionTheWar said:
western said:
The criminal trials "were a shamble and a farce," said lawyer Phil Shiner, who has represented several Iraqi civilians in cases against the British government. The Lords decision is expected in late June or July, Shiner said.
My bold. Represented, but not won any.

Hmm.
Who is paying for Mr Shiner; is it Ms Chakrabati and her organisation, some other organisation or is he on No Win/No fee basis?
Well guessed, Liberty have published some of the SIB Photographic supplement showing Musa's facial injuries so it's roll up and jump on the bandwagon time. Again I suspect that the family will be the losers in this case.
My bold - was this released to the Public Domain (assuming it was classified as evidence)? If it was eveidence, how did it get into the public domain in the first place and is it therefore still evidence?

Incidentally before anybody gets on the "Somebody must have done it Bandwagon" - I agree and if the case warrants it, compensation should be paid. Its just that this seems a highly amateurish attempt given http://www.globalethics.bham.ac.uk/GSAConf2006/ShinerPhil.htm
 
#18
Yes it has been published by a UK broadsheet and no I really don't want to post the link. it would seem that the father released 'his' copy of the supplement at a Liberty supported Press Conference.

I really think this is another money spin on the part of the usual Human rights suspects who it has to be assumed will make a pretty penny from it. it does nothing to advance the course of justice.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#19
I know that you shouldn't take these things personally, but I can't stand Shiner. He made an arrse of himself over the Kenyan rape allegations. He stood to make a few bob had they won. I quite admire Chakrabarti (you should read some of her stuff about the National DNA database) but I've no time for Shiner. She at least come over as genuine, whilst he comes across as a man after a fast and easy buck.

They must have found something which allows them to pursue or attempt to pursue the case through Europe, particularly with regards to the Musa case. A blind man could see that justice hasn't been done there (no offence to those of you reading this in brail).
 
#20
western said:
Yes it has been published by a UK broadsheet and no I really don't want to post the link. it would seem that the father released 'his' copy of the supplement at a Liberty supported Press Conference.

I really think this is another money spin on the part of the usual Human rights suspects who it has to be assumed will make a pretty penny from it. it does nothing to advance the course of justice.
Thanks for that - not interested in photos TBH. Does it actually negate the use of the stuff as evidence?

Biscuits-AB - I agree - Chakrabarti isn't my complete cup of tea but she isn't actually a bleeding heart lefty no matter what many people say. She could pick better friends (Toynbee?) but a lot of her work is actually fairly sensible.
 

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