I deny denying, say the possible deniers...

#5
I think he is technically a holocaust denier denier. Although he now denys it.

This does rather corner lefties, as they must support Palestine and all it's supporters - mental or not - but most pro-Palestinian organisations are anti Israeli, which can easy shift to more general anti-semitism.

However, if you close down any/every argument by accusing your opponent of being "worse than Hitler" (standard Guardian reader cry) and kick off at EDL protests then you must be overtly anti-Nazi and therefore anti-Holocaust denier.

So where so you stand when your Palestinian anti-Semitic pals begin denying the Holocaust?

In a world of lefty confusion, that's where.

This Labour punter must have been chuffed to "out" some Holocaust deniers. That is until another lefty pointed out that they were both pro-Palestinian and from a "minority". Scuppered.

However, aren't Holocaust deniers a small minority? And aren't lefties supposed to back minorities, right or wrong?

It must be so confusing.

Me? **** Palestine. Simple.
 

ehwhat

Old-Salt
Book Reviewer
#9
The term antisemitism was coined in 1871 by Wilhelm Marr who wished to use a term other than the conventional Judenhass (Jew Hatred), which was considered to be off-putting in his polemics against Jews and Judaism. It was not originally designed to include any other group. So, no antisemitism/anti-semitism does not refer to a hatred of anyone other than Jews.
 
#10
Semite is originaly a term for hebrew speakers of what we now know as Palestine/Israel as well as neighbouring tribes considered to be of the same forfather or with roots in the Abrahimac belief system.

Which just makes the Israelis falling out with the Palestinians even more stupid.
 
#11
From the BBC article, it seems that the the snivelling pinko, ahem, labour politician in question had singled out the Friends of Al-Aqsa as being Holocaust deniers. They seem to have disagreed with his assessment and he has adjusted his moral position to accomodate them, thus assuring his continued muslim vote and a friendly outlook from his party's whip office, who don't want to see any more seats go the Respect party's way at the next election. Is there anything else to add?
 
#12
I read an account of what the Stern Gang and the Igrun got up to at the dock in Haifa from the point of view of the booties who were on the rear guard when the mandate ended and I have to say that was the one corner of the empire we should not have left so quickly.

We should have been much harder on the zionists and stuck it out, ignored what happened in europe and not given way, maybe there would have been a functioning Israeli/Arab state today if we had .
 
#13
It sounds like someone spotted that when you have created dozens of 'labour camps' in the middle of a war, can no longer feed your own people, let alone six million prisoners dying slowly of disease, there needs to be a 'solution'! But then someone spotted that someone spotted this but denied having said that they spotted the spotter? One should never deny that you spotted this unless you want to expose something... simple and brilliant!
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
what we should have done was stuck them all in the middle of egypt and made them walk home. that would have passed the buck for 40 years or so unless someone asked for directions this time.
 
#15
Not sure what Jewish extremism has got to do with the news story - A Labour politician made an assertion about a group, the group he said it about complained, he retracted the statement publically.

How right it is to question what the muslim group seemed to be denying is another matter. It does seem like a lot of germanic and eastern european gentlemen went to quite considerable lengths (like all the to South America) to avoid answering questions about what must have been quite a serious matter.
 
#16
Not sure what Jewish extremism has got to do with the news story - A Labour politician made an assertion about a group, the group he said it about complained, he retracted the statement publically.

How right it is to question what the muslim group seemed to be denying is another matter. It does seem like a lot of germanic and eastern european gentlemen went to quite considerable lengths (like all the to South America) to avoid answering questions about what must have been quite a serious matter.
Moral equivelancy.

Red ken and his minions think that one example of inhumanity or ignorance excuses another.

Victors justice from knobbers who havent won yet, but that's the far left for you.
 
#17
Not at all - I accept the Holocaust happened, it was a horrendous thing, and I know that lots of muslim groups have a problem with that because of the implied debt to international jewry on the part of Europe and the United Nations (in the alliance that won WW2 sense).

What I'm saying is that the news story is a he said - she said thing between a Labour politician and a muslim political group. The article says that the Labour MP made a claim and then retracted it. It does not go into detail on what the Friends of Al-Aqsa actually said, or what the Irgun or the Stern Gang actually got up to in Palestine, which is what the thread seems to be dwelling on.
 

ehwhat

Old-Salt
Book Reviewer
#19
I read an account of what the Stern Gang and the Igrun got up to at the dock in Haifa from the point of view of the booties who were on the rear guard when the mandate ended and I have to say that was the one corner of the empire we should not have left so quickly.

We should have been much harder on the zionists and stuck it out, ignored what happened in europe and not given way, maybe there would have been a functioning Israeli/Arab state today if we had .
Unfortunately, our staying or leaving would have made little to no difference in the outcome. The situation was too far gone in any meaningful way by that time.

There are too many instances to cite and others within the professional literature have done so with full citation. So, just a few of my personal favorites. The Irgun deftly manipulated PR. We set ourselves up and they missed very few opportunities to use it to their advantage. Indeed, one of their very successful outreach efforts gave us at least one legacy that practically every other terrorist group has used since. To whit, "We aren't terrorists, we are freedom fighters." Had a chat with a fellow supporting some of the more exciting Islamist groups outside the TESCO in Canterbury City Center who quoted that at me whilst screaming about the Zionists. He had no idea he was quoting Menachem Begin in support of his cause. The irony was palpable. So was the passionate spittle. Fortunately, the spit washes off.

In an effort to mollify the other side of the equation, among other things we invented the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and were repaid by his warm embrace of the Germans during WWII. Having learned nothing from that foray, we eventually put the mess in the lap of the UN. Who promptly did what they do best. To smart by half that was.

I am not convinced that our staying would have been of much help.

No, it will sort itself out if and when they decide to sort themselves out and not a moment before.
 
#20
But the issue is not that Jews did or did not have horrific things done to them during WW2, or that a bunch of Jews were right cnuts in British Palestine.

The issue is that this muslim group made some assertion about the holocaust, this Labour MP called it denial, the muslim group complained and, I would imagine, Labour central office got on the phone to the Labour MP with some interesting information about how many muslims voted Labour in his constituency at the last election, resulting in him retracting his accusation.

The news story does not focus on what the Friends of Al-Aqsa actually said, which is the BBC's fault. The Labour MP spoke out of turn and got whipped, it happens all the time. It certainly has not proved politically convenient for him, especially since the BBC have picked up the story, and a bunch of squaddies (at least) are arguing about it online.