Hunting Hitler

I think if anyone knows what happened with Hitler, it would be the Israelis. Anyone know what their perspective is?
 
The Russians sought out Hitler's dentist. They couldn't find him but they did find his assistant. Hitler's teeth were manky and his mouth was full of fillings, bridges and caps. The assistant drew a picture of Hitler's teeth that was correct in every detail. The American forensic dentist reviewing the report noted that the assistant had described unique features of Hitler's dental work such as a bridge that had been filed down to stop it irritating Adolph's gums.
The woman who carried Hitler’s teeth on V-Day
 
I've just finished re-reading The Death of Hitler (1995) by Ada Petrova and Peter Watson, although as Petrova doesn't speak or write English, I'll say it's by Watson. It's a very interesting book, and not to difficult to read at 163 pages. What sets this book apart from others is that author Petrova was able to obtain the Kremlin's file on the death of Hitler, known as Operation Myth. The authors compared the newly obtained Russian information to the two best Western works on the subject; Hugh Trevor-Roper's The Last Days of Hitler (1947) and James O'Donnell's The Berlin Bunker (1979). Of one thing however, all of the works agree: Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun died at around 3:30pm local time in a private room in the bunker on April 30, 1945. Another agreed fact is that the next day, May 1, between 5:30 and 6:00pm, Magda Goebbels (either with or without medical help) sedated her children with doped chocolate then poisoned them with cyanide. Later that evening, at 8:30pm, while standing outside the bunker entrance, Magda bit down on a cyanide capsule after which Josef shot her in the head. Then Josef bit down on a cyanide capsule and shot himself. Everything else is up for interpretation based on what the witnesses said, and when they said it.

The reason for not knowing definitively what happened (other then the happy couples are dead) is not down to a conspiracy theory being perpetrated by the Germans or the Russians trying to prove what happened in the bunker did or did not happen, but rather how the facts were collected, from who, and when.

Notice I said Adolf and Eva died rather than committed suicide. After the Russians found the bunker at 9:00am on May 2, they started grabbing as many Nazis as they could. The problem was, there were competing Russian organizations all trying to do the same thing. As well, not all of the bunker's last inhabitants, when captured, were sequestered in the same place. In other words, there was no attempt by the Russians to get all of the bunkerites together in one place, at the same time, to get the real story. During the interrogations of the survivors, one of the stories the Russians heard was that Adolf didn't go quietly into that good night. The story went that he tried the cyanide capsule route (but without the gun to the head as back-up), went into an apoplectic fit when the cyanide he took reacted badly with all of the other drugs he was taking, and ended up being shot in the head by his SS Adjutatnt, Otto Günsche. Which brings us to the second problem in trying to reonstruct what happened in the bunker; the changing stories of those who were there. Many, especially Hitler's private pilot, Otto Bauer, changed their story so often that they became completely useless as witnesses. One issue with which the witnesses did not agree, was whether or not they heard a gunshot from Hitler's room at the time of his death. They do agree that Adolf's body was carried up the stairs, covered in a blanket, by two SS officers. Eva's body was carried by one officer, with her face uncovered. So, did the witnesses give conflicting stories in order not to reveal the truth, that der Fuhrer died a horrible, agonizing, death, or were they just trying to screw with the Russians?

Finally, there's the witnesses the Russians didn't get. Those that managed to escape to the West. These were the persons Hugh Trevor-Roper interviewed in 1945 and 1946. In short, no single inquiry into the end of the days in the bunker got a complete and factual story. Other than, as I've said, Adolf and Eva were kaput. O'Donnell's work benefited by the fact that many of the witnesses who had been interned in the Gulag were released during 1955-56 and available to be interviewed. He was able to interview Günsche and Heinz Linge (Hitler's valet). By 1974, both were successful businessmen in West Germany. (Günsche died at age 86 in 2003. So much for hunting down Nazis in West Germany.) From these witnesses, O'Donnell was able to flesh out much of the detail of who was there, especially who was standing in the hallway outside of Hitler's rooms. In the end however, the story of Hitler's death doesn't deviate much from what Trevor-Roper put forward in his book, which just shows how well he did in his research, even with the limitations imposed on him.

I recommend the book as a good place to start it one's interested in the subject.

Cheers,
Dan.
 
I've just finished re-reading The Death of Hitler (1995) by Ada Petrova and Peter Watson, although as Petrova doesn't speak or write English, I'll say it's by Watson. It's a very interesting book, and not to difficult to read at 163 pages. What sets this book apart from others is that author Petrova was able to obtain the Kremlin's file on the death of Hitler, known as Operation Myth. The authors compared the newly obtained Russian information to the two best Western works on the subject; Hugh Trevor-Roper's The Last Days of Hitler (1947) and James O'Donnell's The Berlin Bunker (1979). Of one thing however, all of the works agree: Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun died at around 3:30pm local time in a private room in the bunker on April 30, 1945. Another agreed fact is that the next day, May 1, between 5:30 and 6:00pm, Magda Goebbels (either with or without medical help) sedated her children with doped chocolate then poisoned them with cyanide. Later that evening, at 8:30pm, while standing outside the bunker entrance, Magda bit down on a cyanide capsule after which Josef shot her in the head. Then Josef bit down on a cyanide capsule and shot himself. Everything else is up for interpretation based on what the witnesses said, and when they said it.

The reason for not knowing definitively what happened (other then the happy couples are dead) is not down to a conspiracy theory being perpetrated by the Germans or the Russians trying to prove what happened in the bunker did or did not happen, but rather how the facts were collected, from who, and when.

Notice I said Adolf and Eva died rather than committed suicide. After the Russians found the bunker at 9:00am on May 2, they started grabbing as many Nazis as they could. The problem was, there were competing Russian organizations all trying to do the same thing. As well, not all of the bunker's last inhabitants, when captured, were sequestered in the same place. In other words, there was no attempt by the Russians to get all of the bunkerites together in one place, at the same time, to get the real story. During the interrogations of the survivors, one of the stories the Russians heard was that Adolf didn't go quietly into that good night. The story went that he tried the cyanide capsule route (but without the gun to the head as back-up), went into an apoplectic fit when the cyanide he took reacted badly with all of the other drugs he was taking, and ended up being shot in the head by his SS Adjutatnt, Otto Günsche. Which brings us to the second problem in trying to reonstruct what happened in the bunker; the changing stories of those who were there. Many, especially Hitler's private pilot, Otto Bauer, changed their story so often that they became completely useless as witnesses. One issue with which the witnesses did not agree, was whether or not they heard a gunshot from Hitler's room at the time of his death. They do agree that Adolf's body was carried up the stairs, covered in a blanket, by two SS officers. Eva's body was carried by one officer, with her face uncovered. So, did the witnesses give conflicting stories in order not to reveal the truth, that der Fuhrer died a horrible, agonizing, death, or were they just trying to screw with the Russians?

Finally, there's the witnesses the Russians didn't get. Those that managed to escape to the West. These were the persons Hugh Trevor-Roper interviewed in 1945 and 1946. In short, no single inquiry into the end of the days in the bunker got a complete and factual story. Other than, as I've said, Adolf and Eva were kaput. O'Donnell's work benefited by the fact that many of the witnesses who had been interned in the Gulag were released during 1955-56 and available to be interviewed. He was able to interview Günsche and Heinz Linge (Hitler's valet). By 1974, both were successful businessmen in West Germany. (Günsche died at age 86 in 2003. So much for hunting down Nazis in West Germany.) From these witnesses, O'Donnell was able to flesh out much of the detail of who was there, especially who was standing in the hallway outside of Hitler's rooms. In the end however, the story of Hitler's death doesn't deviate much from what Trevor-Roper put forward in his book, which just shows how well he did in his research, even with the limitations imposed on him.

I recommend the book as a good place to start it one's interested in the subject.

Cheers,
Dan.
Just to say, what a cracking good, informative post.
 
After 8 episodes of dribbling about Naatseys and "this is massive" accompanied by lashings of tin foil the conclusion has finally been arrived at. Drum roll...if Hitler had survived he could have gone to South America. Well knock me down with a feather I would have never have guessed that. He was going to be flown there in a seaplane which would refuel from a submarine in the middle of the Atlantic, probably more than once given the distance. I assume the armchair experts on the show have never seen an Atlantic swell and what it does to an aircraft carrier let alone a 1930/40s vintage seaplane landing on an open sea.

Apparently they took three years to investigate this lot. I was hard pushed to find anything in the show that hasn't already been published or was in the public domain. Its common knowledge that the catholic Church in Italy helped good catholic naatseys escape to South America. The fact that they became involved in local politics in order to save their own skins isn't much of a surprise either. Given that their former colleges were all swinging at the end of a hangman's rope its small wonder they took extreme measures to protect themselves in closed communities. In the pre-sattelite area they were as good as hidden.

The icing on this cake of tin foil millenary was going to the FBI with their file to ask if they had enough evidence to pursue Hitler, if he had escaped from Germany, and was still alive....and had not died in Germany (their words). The only interesting piece of evidence I saw them turn up was a series of official files of Germans who had been given citizenship as emigrants to Argentina. In other words collusion by the regime at the time. Not surprising, just interesting. At least they then had a list of names and pictures of those who had made it through the various rat lines to South America. I would have liked to have seen more on that and their original backgrounds in Germany.

Yanks, if you're going to do a programme about Germans and Germany learn some basic pronunciation FFS. Its not hard.
 
I have watched every episode and found them all really interesting right up to the 3/4 mark where that little voice in my head asked what about the editing.

the only history channel show that has any semblance of truthfulness is curse of oak island and only because they are constantly drilling BFO holes and finding **** all, that's something you would want to edit the hell out of to make it more exciting
 
There seem to be quite a few of these 'fake history' programmes on at the moment.
I tried Oak Island and gave up, a never ending story with no substance.
I tried Hunting Hitler and like a previous poster managed to learn that Nazi fugitives fled to South America, blimey, well I never...I gave up again.
There is nothing new to learn about Hitler and the subject has been done to death.

The best example of this phenomena that I have witnessed was a fairly recent programme about H H Holmes the American serial killer.
It was called 'American Ripper' and postulated that H H Holmes was our very own Saucy Jack from Whitechapel.
The presenters were Holmes' great grandson and a former female CIA officer who was very easy on the eye.
Over 8 episodes they tried to prove a link between Holmes and Jack The Ripper and absolutely no evidence whatsoever was found to assert this theory, nothing.
Over 8 hours of programmes the only 'fact' that they managed to include was that the body in Holmes' grave was Holmes, they actually dug him up and DNA tested him.
Holmes' great grandson (a doctor) was as creepy as can be and you could see the disappointment in him as every theory was knocked out.
The only saving grace was the CIA girl who towards the end of the series found it hard to hide her credulity at Holmes' quite clearly insane relative.
In all, a total and utter waste of time like 'Hunting Hitler' and the never ending 'Oak Island' tripe.

Bring back Fred Dibnah.
 
After 8 episodes of dribbling about Naatseys and "this is massive" accompanied by lashings of tin foil the conclusion has finally been arrived at. Drum roll...if Hitler had survived he could have gone to South America. Well knock me down with a feather I would have never have guessed that. He was going to be flown there in a seaplane which would refuel from a submarine in the middle of the Atlantic, probably more than once given the distance. I assume the armchair experts on the show have never seen an Atlantic swell and what it does to an aircraft carrier let alone a 1930/40s vintage seaplane landing on an open sea.

Apparently they took three years to investigate this lot. I was hard pushed to find anything in the show that hasn't already been published or was in the public domain. Its common knowledge that the catholic Church in Italy helped good catholic naatseys escape to South America. The fact that they became involved in local politics in order to save their own skins isn't much of a surprise either. Given that their former colleges were all swinging at the end of a hangman's rope its small wonder they took extreme measures to protect themselves in closed communities. In the pre-sattelite area they were as good as hidden.

The icing on this cake of tin foil millenary was going to the FBI with their file to ask if they had enough evidence to pursue Hitler, if he had escaped from Germany, and was still alive....and had not died in Germany (their words). The only interesting piece of evidence I saw them turn up was a series of official files of Germans who had been given citizenship as emigrants to Argentina. In other words collusion by the regime at the time. Not surprising, just interesting. At least they then had a list of names and pictures of those who had made it through the various rat lines to South America. I would have liked to have seen more on that and their original backgrounds in Germany.

Yanks, if you're going to do a programme about Germans and Germany learn some basic pronunciation FFS. Its not hard.
I'd just like to say thanks for putting yourself through that & giving us an informative summary. I doubt I could have persisted long without throwing things at the screen.

An interesting titbit about ze Chermans who did make to Argieland: an antiques dealer I know of went there on a gold-buying trip several decades ago. He met some retired gentlemen with odd accents who presented for his inspection bags of various gold objects. He said the experience made him feel sick - literally. The contents of the bags were gold teeth & Stars of David necklaces.
 
I'd just like to say thanks for putting yourself through that & giving us an informative summary. I doubt I could have persisted long without throwing things at the screen.

An interesting titbit about ze Chermans who did make to Argieland: an antiques dealer I know of went there on a gold-buying trip several decades ago. He met some retired gentlemen with odd accents who presented for his inspection bags of various gold objects. He said the experience made him feel sick - literally. The contents of the bags were gold teeth & Stars of David necklaces.
Pity it was so long ago. That would have made for more interesting interviews than some of the tosh that was touted as new facts.
 
After 8 episodes of dribbling about Naatseys and "this is massive" accompanied by lashings of tin foil the conclusion has finally been arrived at. Drum roll...if Hitler had survived he could have gone to South America. Well knock me down with a feather I would have never have guessed that. He was going to be flown there in a seaplane which would refuel from a submarine in the middle of the Atlantic, probably more than once given the distance. I assume the armchair experts on the show have never seen an Atlantic swell and what it does to an aircraft carrier let alone a 1930/40s vintage seaplane landing on an open sea.

Apparently they took three years to investigate this lot. I was hard pushed to find anything in the show that hasn't already been published or was in the public domain. Its common knowledge that the catholic Church in Italy helped good catholic naatseys escape to South America. The fact that they became involved in local politics in order to save their own skins isn't much of a surprise either. Given that their former colleges were all swinging at the end of a hangman's rope its small wonder they took extreme measures to protect themselves in closed communities. In the pre-sattelite area they were as good as hidden.

The icing on this cake of tin foil millenary was going to the FBI with their file to ask if they had enough evidence to pursue Hitler, if he had escaped from Germany, and was still alive....and had not died in Germany (their words). The only interesting piece of evidence I saw them turn up was a series of official files of Germans who had been given citizenship as emigrants to Argentina. In other words collusion by the regime at the time. Not surprising, just interesting. At least they then had a list of names and pictures of those who had made it through the various rat lines to South America. I would have liked to have seen more on that and their original backgrounds in Germany.

Yanks, if you're going to do a programme about Germans and Germany learn some basic pronunciation FFS. Its not hard.
I watched most of it, in hope that something really interesting would come up, but it never did and the series ended with a dismal whisper.
But - 3 years, travelling and exploring and I am guessing they didnt stay in youth hostels. Where do I sign up for series 2, I am pretty sure I can look surprised, amazed, dumbfounded etc etc with the best of them!
 
After 8 episodes of dribbling about Naatseys and "this is massive" accompanied by lashings of tin foil the conclusion has finally been arrived at. Drum roll...if Hitler had survived he could have gone to South America. Well knock me down with a feather I would have never have guessed that. He was going to be flown there in a seaplane which would refuel from a submarine in the middle of the Atlantic, probably more than once given the distance. I assume the armchair experts on the show have never seen an Atlantic swell and what it does to an aircraft carrier let alone a 1930/40s vintage seaplane landing on an open sea.

Apparently they took three years to investigate this lot. I was hard pushed to find anything in the show that hasn't already been published or was in the public domain. Its common knowledge that the catholic Church in Italy helped good catholic naatseys escape to South America. The fact that they became involved in local politics in order to save their own skins isn't much of a surprise either. Given that their former colleges were all swinging at the end of a hangman's rope its small wonder they took extreme measures to protect themselves in closed communities. In the pre-sattelite area they were as good as hidden.

The icing on this cake of tin foil millenary was going to the FBI with their file to ask if they had enough evidence to pursue Hitler, if he had escaped from Germany, and was still alive....and had not died in Germany (their words). The only interesting piece of evidence I saw them turn up was a series of official files of Germans who had been given citizenship as emigrants to Argentina. In other words collusion by the regime at the time. Not surprising, just interesting. At least they then had a list of names and pictures of those who had made it through the various rat lines to South America. I would have liked to have seen more on that and their original backgrounds in Germany.

Yanks, if you're going to do a programme about Germans and Germany learn some basic pronunciation FFS. Its not hard.
I watched most of it, in hope that something really interesting would come up, but it never did and the series ended with a dismal whisper.
But - 3 years, travelling and exploring and I am guessing they didnt stay in youth hostels. Where do I sign up for series 2, I am pretty sure I can look surprised, amazed, dumbfounded etc etc with the best of them!
I don't know if it was the hunting Hitler or another ' investigative ' program concerning Nazis in south America, they checked out a factory that was owned by a German in the '40s and '50s. They decided that he was incharge of the fourth Reich weapons program as they did some swab tests on old equipment that tested positive for explosives. There's a lot of things that will give a positive results i.e. old fashioned playing cards testing positive for nitrocellulose.
They were like my ex-wife, they had a tiny amount of information and stretched it to just short of breaking point to come up with absolutely ridiculous outcomes.

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