Hunt imposes new contract on Junior Doctors 11/02/16

Thought this deserves its own thread.


I believe/hope this is a watershed moment, when everyone wakes up and decides that they'll be next for bending over a barrel.

I hope so

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I feel like I should be shouting "it's a trap"

It's pretty much how the dissection of the NHS in to a private for profit operation has been planned.

Scary stuff, start planning to budget for your healthcare and if you can't afford it don't get sick.
 
It's pretty much how the dissection of the NHS in to a private for profit operation has been planned.

I thought the rate of so-called-privatisation under the Tories was actually marginally slower than what it was under the last Labour government.

I have very little sympathy for these junior Doctors. The BMA has tried to dress this up as a hysteric assault on the NHS as a Great British institution that the nasty Tories want to destroy. Anyone who has worked in the NHS (including msyelf) know that it is unfit for purpose with various pressures on it, and not all of those are funding related. The whole system needs a rethink, and I am afraid that includes the contracts of junior doctors.

Wade through some of the hysteria and look at the facts - junior doctors will be getting a pretty good deal.
 
What happens if they refuse to accept it?

Will there be a rethink or just accept more dusky gentlemen with dodgy qualifications and no understanding of English?
 
What happens if they refuse to accept it?

Will there be a rethink or just accept more dusky gentlemen with dodgy qualifications and no understanding of English?

I imagine once they realise that not every single one of them will be able to emigrate to Australia & NZ, or fulfill the offers of employment touted by politicians in Scotland & Wales, that they will very quietly sign on to get a very decent entry level wage.

And then for the junior doctors of the next tranche, there will be no choice - they will have to sign this contract.

The BMA have used this issue as a vehicle for attacking the government on a much wider issue - but I cannot see the reported 90% of junior doctors the left wing press is claiming will quit doing so.
 
They are getting a rise in basic pay and extra pay after 5pm on a Saturday. They still want paying extra for all day Saturday, I have no sympathy for their stance, they have gained extra concessions but still reject the offer.
 
I thought the rate of so-called-privatisation under the Tories was actually marginally slower than what it was under the last Labour government.

I have very little sympathy for these junior Doctors. The BMA has tried to dress this up as a hysteric assault on the NHS as a Great British institution that the nasty Tories want to destroy. Anyone who has worked in the NHS (including msyelf) know that it is unfit for purpose with various pressures on it, and not all of those are funding related. The whole system needs a rethink, and I am afraid that includes the contracts of junior doctors.

Wade through some of the hysteria and look at the facts - junior doctors will be getting a pretty good deal.

Unfit for purpose? The various pressures are generally political (targets) bureaucracy and mis management

The system does need a rehaul/rethink but if you think the purposeful destruction of the NHS with the objective of moving it to a for profit model, is the way forward you are mad
 

Tuffty

War Hero
Sorry but I have no sympathy, If they don't like it then just leave and stop bleating about it. Join the real world where either you get on with it or look for another job.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Docs say the offer they put up is cash and cost neutral. Hunt says it isn't and is keen to steamroller this through.
So far he's been shadow minister for Crips.
Minister for sports, media and Culture. As well as being in charge of the olympics.
I wonder who's right?

Why the rush? And why the sudden interest in a 7 day NHS, when was it not?

According to stats. I know I get all that. But so much more stuff happens at the weekend, drunks, *********, General looneyness, if people turn up sick at the the w/e. At a time when according to perceived wisdom it's not a good time to go. Could it just be that they've left it too late, unlike the Wednesday night hypochondriac.
I know I'm generally predisposed to suspect the Tories of anything but honesty and decency.
But what's the upside to this?
 
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Auld-Yin

ADC
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They are getting a rise in basic pay and extra pay after 5pm on a Saturday. They still want paying extra for all day Saturday, I have no sympathy for their stance, they have gained extra concessions but still reject the offer.
This had nowt to do with pay, all to do with the BMA showing who is Boss!
 
They are getting a rise in basic pay and extra pay after 5pm on a Saturday. They still want paying extra for all day Saturday, I have no sympathy for their stance, they have gained extra concessions but still reject the offer.

I think the core pay rise but erosion to special rates is the problem. There are a few good examples in the comments at the bottom of this page:

FactCheck: are junior doctors getting a pay cut?


Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
 
They are getting a rise in basic pay and extra pay after 5pm on a Saturday. They still want paying extra for all day Saturday, I have no sympathy for their stance, they have gained extra concessions but still reject the offer.

can you run the reality figures past us? Indicate the extra pay and the extra concessions they have gained and ignored
 
Unfit for purpose? The various pressures are generally political (targets) bureaucracy and mis management

The system does need a rehaul/rethink but if you think the purposeful destruction of the NHS with the objective of moving it to a for profit model, is the way forward you are mad

Some of the biggest pressures the NHS face are from an increasingly aging population needing more care, bed blockers and the pressure immigrants place upon the NHS.

Yes some political pressures exist - 18 week targets being a prime example.

However I do not think expecting doctors to work 7 days a week is negative - it is seeking to relieve many of those pressures.

Ultimately the junior doctors wanted more money; the BMA jumped on the band wagon for some Tory bashing. The government offered more money, the BMA said no on behalf of the junior doctors. 2 strikes later, the government have had enough and will be imposing a new (but still generous!) contract onto the junior doctors.
 
T

Tinman74

Guest
@thegimp whats with the recently militant stance?

Where would you pay for demands? What would you cut?

Would you raise taxes?

Would you pay more taxes?
 
Standby for more pictures taken by doctors working at the weekend to martyr their selves whilst the rest of us who also work weekends do so without having to show everyone we are doing so.

Nobody likes having their terms changed but they certainly have not gotten a bad deal out of it. The opinion polls are always going to be skewed in their favour because the NHS is the sacred cow, I wonder how many people who support ongoing strikes have looked at the new contract.

But the tories must be trying to sell the NHS off!
 
From the horses mouth:

(Comment from my previous link) Slightly onerous but worth a read.

"Based on the existing salary and my current rota per year I work:
8 Saturday days(0800-2030), 8 Saturday nights (2000-0830), 8 Sunday days, 8 Sunday nights and 32 weekday nights along with other lates and standard (8-1730) days averaging 46 hours per week across the year, a fairly intense on call rota.

This qualifies me for 1A rota and my current salary at CT2 is £31 838 basic with a 50% supplement taking this to £47757 per year.

In three years time a CT2 on the same rota (who will have moved outside their pay protection baseline assuming they are an FY1 currently) will earn (based on the information given in the contract offer) £37400 basic but only £3947 extra for the antisocial hours involved giving £41347 gross, a pay cut (not to me personally but to the role which will be identical) of 13.4%."


Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
 
can you run the reality figures past us? Indicate the extra pay and the extra concessions they have gained and ignored

The link above your post gives a look into the changes.
 
Would anyone notice a difference?

Nope. The NHS would not exist at the moment without foreign support. Be they Portugese consultants or Filipino nurses, the NHS attracts some of the best in the world to our shores.

Rather than highlight the shortfalls in the domestic production of doctors and nurses in universities to meet the NHS demands, the BMA instead chooses to hysterically attack a contractual change that will see junior doctors salaries change from well above the national average wage to more or less the same wage well above the national average.

I'm sick of shared social media posts about what glorious martyrs junior doctors are because they work unsocial hours - they knew what they were signing up to, and are rewarded for it very nicely indeed.
 
Some of the biggest pressures the NHS face are from an increasingly aging population needing more care, bed blockers and the pressure immigrants place upon the NHS.

Yes some political pressures exist - 18 week targets being a prime example.

However I do not think expecting doctors to work 7 days a week is negative - it is seeking to relieve many of those pressures.

Ultimately the junior doctors wanted more money; the BMA jumped on the band wagon for some Tory bashing. The government offered more money, the BMA said no on behalf of the junior doctors. 2 strikes later, the government have had enough and will be imposing a new (but still generous!) contract onto the junior doctors.

"I do not think expecting doctors to work 7 days a week is negative"

Blimey

This idea that the BMA is a power crazed Union banging its drum is bonkers pure rhetoric

Eventually, in the future doctors will get their market value pay rates. Unfortunately when that happens they'll be contracted to private agencies who take a huge cut to supply them to what's left of the NHS

Society will pay for this. Mean time society continues to pay millions to train doctors To continue the supply of manpower to private for profit organisations

The impact of commodifying health care is something that won't hit most of us until it's too late and we/our children get sick

Good look with your "I have no sympathy with the junior doctors"

Try extracting some sympathy out of the worlds biggest healthcare insurers (protected by the TTIP) when you haven't got your private health insurance in place because you are sick because you lost your job

These attitudes are so shortsighted I'm utterly baffled

I work with a guy and his US GP pays 14k a month for family health insurance........
 

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