Humor a true idiot - TAX

#1
Tax. Popular topic at the moment. I am a very simple man(see my other posts for confirmation). I do not understand the tax system and my attempts to google it have resulted in brain freeze.

I earn a wage that I am taxed on. I then pay tax on any items that I purchase. I pay tax to drive my car on public roads. I pay tax to drive through areas that are congested. I pay tax to save the money that I have already paid tax on from my wage. I pay tax on any money that my relatives have paid tax on, if they decide to leave it to me when they die.

Would it not make sense to just pay a set rate that incorporates everything?

Why is the system set up like this? And does it benfit us this way?

Yours,

A true idiot.
 
#2
Tax. Popular topic at the moment. I am a very simple man(see my other posts for confirmation). I do not understand the tax system and my attempts to google it have resulted in brain freeze.I earn a wage that I am taxed on. I then pay tax on any items that I purchase. I pay tax to drive my car on public roads. I pay tax to drive through areas that are congested. I pay tax to save the money that I have already paid tax on from my wage. I pay tax on any money that my relatives have paid tax on, if they decide to leave it to me when they die.Would it not make sense to just pay a set rate that incorporates everything?Why is the system set up like this? And does it benfit us this way?Yours,A true idiot.
It may be simpler, but I for one dont like the idea of a 90% basic rate of tax.
 
#3
Tax. Popular topic at the moment. I am a very simple man(see my other posts for confirmation). I do not understand the tax system and my attempts to google it have resulted in brain freeze.

I earn a wage that I am taxed on. I then pay tax on any items that I purchase. I pay tax to drive my car on public roads. I pay tax to drive through areas that are congested. I pay tax to save the money that I have already paid tax on from my wage. I pay tax on any money that my relatives have paid tax on, if they decide to leave it to me when they die.

Would it not make sense to just pay a set rate that incorporates everything?

Why is the system set up like this? And does it benfit us this way?

Yours,

A true idiot.
There are many benefits, it is mostly for those that are being paid from the tax income (soldiers included btw) but it also allows the common working pleb to fools themselves that they aren't paying something like 75% (or more) of their income in some form of tax or other.


Keeps us all nice and quiet.

Plus of course it enables the Government to add/increase any number of additional taxes whenever they can think up a new one.
 
#4
There are many benefits, it is mostly for those that are being paid from the tax income (soldiers included btw) but it also allows the common working pleb to fools themselves that they aren't paying something like 75% (or more) of their income in some form of tax or other.


Keeps us all nice and quiet.

Plus of course it enables the Government to add/increase any number of additional taxes whenever they can think up a new one.
I did leave a few out as I put them down to being completely stupid like the BBC TV tax. I enjoy living in this country and am prepared to make sacrifices for doing so, some of it is just stupid though.
 
#5
I did leave a few out as I put them down to being completely stupid like the BBC TV tax. I enjoy living in this country and am prepared to make sacrifices for doing so, some of it is just stupid though.
Yep but as I said it enables the tax man to make up/hide/increase the tax take in such a way that you (and mostly everyone else) won't notice.

The "poll tax" riots shows what can happen if they get it wrong.

Much easier and apparently workable is a flat 25% tax* on all income above a certain level with no get out clauses of any sort allowed by anyone for anything. As used by a number of countries around the world.

*guesstimate only there.
 
#6
Tax. Popular topic at the moment. I am a very simple man(see my other posts for confirmation). I do not understand the tax system and my attempts to google it have resulted in brain freeze.

I earn a wage that I am taxed on. I then pay tax on any items that I purchase. I pay tax to drive my car on public roads. I pay tax to drive through areas that are congested. I pay tax to save the money that I have already paid tax on from my wage. I pay tax on any money that my relatives have paid tax on, if they decide to leave it to me when they die.

Would it not make sense to just pay a set rate that incorporates everything?

Why is the system set up like this? And does it benfit us this way?

Yours,

A true idiot.


You forgot to mention that, as a car driver, you get charged a tax on fuel, and then have to pay tax (VAT) on that tax....



Would be interesting to calculate the total tax take from an individual over the course of their life (ie including death duties and/or the compulsory sale of assets to pay for old age care, etc), but I suppose most people would instantly stop bothering to work and simply go onto welfare. I saw one estimate that put it at about 82% of income over a lifetime...
 
#7
I am expecting a rebate when they bring in the penis tax. There is a scale somewhere that tells you how many days/months you work before what you earn is yours (can't find link). I don't think this includes VAT and other taxes but if my memory serves the average is mid August where it used to be beginning of July.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
Much easier and apparently workable is a flat 25% tax* on all income above a certain level with no get out clauses of any sort allowed by anyone for anything. As used by a number of countries around the world.

*guesstimate only there.
When implemented, the tax take goes up as the scope for tax avoidance is virtually nil. Economic activity also seems to improve as small and medium sized companies spend more time on useful activities such as producing stuff and less time on filling in needlessly complicated pieces of paper.

You can also bin many government systems and employees because the tax is far simpler to collect and administer. This saves on public sector costs.

Wordsmith
 
#9
No flat rate taxes are randain libertarian bullshit.
Progressive income tax rates have been used in this country since there was income tax.
Its fair because after a certain amount of income food housing living expenses cease to be a what you spend the vast majority of your wages on. Unlike people further down the income scale are.
Regardless of what liz jones of the daily mail definition of poverty is.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
There is a scale somewhere that tells you how many days/months you work before what you earn is yours (can't find link). I don't think this includes VAT and other taxes but if my memory serves the average is mid August where it used to be beginning of July.
This is tax freedom day. In the UK it is calculated by the Adam Smith institute.

Today is Tax Freedom Day 2012 | Adam Smith Institute

We had to work 149 days this year to pay the tax we owed to the government. Only after 29th May did we start to earn anything for ourselves.

Wordsmith
 
#11
#12
During my google searches I did come across this, which I felt was worth sharing:

Suppose that, every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

* The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing
* The fifth would pay £1
* The sixth would pay £3
* The seventh would pay £7
* The eighth would pay £12
* The ninth would pay £18
* The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59

So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement; until one day the owner threw them a problem.
"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20." Drinks for the ten now cost just £80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.
So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

* And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)
* The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% savings)
* The seventh now pay £5 instead of £7 (28% savings)
* The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% savings)
* The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% savings)
* The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% savings)

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
"I only got a pound out of the £20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "But he got £10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved £1 as well.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they
discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that is how our tax system works.

The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just
may not show up any more. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible
Now who's round is it ?????
 
#13
No flat rate taxes are randain libertarian bullshit.
Progressive income tax rates have been used in this country since there was income tax.
Its fair because after a certain amount of income food housing living expenses cease to be a what you spend the vast majority of your wages on. Unlike people further down the income scale are.
Regardless of what liz jones of the daily mail definition of poverty is.
Agree. However you could get round this to some extent by giving people a decent personal allowance - i.e. not taxing the lower waged at all.

It is a bit ridiculous for the government to be taking money from those who do not have enought to live on - even more so if it has to give back with the other hand.
 
#14
You forgot to mention that, as a car driver, you get charged a tax on fuel, and then have to pay tax (VAT) on that tax....



Would be interesting to calculate the total tax take from an individual over the course of their life (ie including death duties and/or the compulsory sale of assets to pay for old age care, etc), but I suppose most people would instantly stop bothering to work and simply go onto welfare. I saw one estimate that put it at about 82% of income over a lifetime...
Even more fun, did you know that the vapour reclaim pumps that are now mandatory in the uk returns the vapour to the tank so it can be sold again? That means you are paying 2 x tax on something you don't even get. Isn't that fun?
 
#15
............................Much easier and apparently workable is a flat 25% tax* on all income above a certain level with no get out clauses of any sort allowed by anyone for anything. As used by a number of countries around the world.
*guesstimate only there.
In Theory. What if no income tax until earnings reach, for example, £100,000pa. Instead increase VAT (except on utilities, fuel, food) to a higher level?
Would it be possible to cover the shortfall while allowing people to spend there "extra" money where they wished?
It would also bring a lot of non tax payers into the scheme.
 
#16
You forgot to mention that, as a car driver, you get charged a tax on fuel, and then have to pay tax (VAT) on that tax....
Very nearly. You pay road fuel duty. You then pay VAT on the duty as well as VAT on the petrol. IIRC fuel taxation is around 300% of the cost of the fuel.

Don't forget the road tax and the insurance premium tax on your compulsory insurance either.

Britain now has the ninth highest rate of taxation in the developed world. Within the EU, only France has higher overall rates of taxation. Hence everybody from Starbucks to Jimmy Carr is opting out of UK tax.
 
#17
No flat rate taxes are randain libertarian bullshit.
Progressive income tax rates have been used in this country since there was income tax.
Its fair because after a certain amount of income food housing living expenses cease to be a what you spend the vast majority of your wages on. Unlike people further down the income scale are.
Regardless of what liz jones of the daily mail definition of poverty is.
Why unworkable? Seems to work fairly well in those places where it is used.

A tax free income level for each individual before any tax and then a flat rate on anything above that.

Sounds pretty fair and open to me and the higher earners will still pay more tax than the "poor".

I am sure there is a lot more devil in the details but on the surface it looks good.

Apparently this is called a Marginal flat tax and not a true flat tax, so lets have that instead.
 
#18
Civillisation costs money lots of money.
If you decide to start wars and have tax cuts debts go through the roof and the infrastructure starts to fall about as the yanks are finding out.
Loads of stuff goverment does might be pointless but a lot of what it does is vital and like railtrack when it cut swarthes of middle management and the "pointless" people who walked the track everyday people died and millions had to be spent replacing track which wasnt maintained properly.

Moaning barstard stopping quoting yank idiots.
The rich can go galt if they like but then there find there not irreplaceable .
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#19
Civillisation costs money lots of money.
If you decide to start wars and have tax cuts debts go through the roof and the infrastructure starts to fall about as the yanks are finding out.
Loads of stuff goverment does might be pointless but a lot of what it does is vital and like railtrack when it cut swarthes of middle management and the "pointless" people who walked the track everyday people died and millions had to be spent replacing track which wasnt maintained properly.

Moaning barstard stopping quoting yank idiots.
The rich can go galt if they like but then there find there not irreplaceable .
Bollocks, I'm afraid, as regards the railways. When they were a fully-functioning private enterprise system they worked fine. It's the current mix of public/private that's a fuckup, as the plcs involved know they'll be saved if they cock up.

Governments of all hues (but especially socialist ones) love complex tax structures (and ours is the most complex in the world, thanks to G Brown) as it offers them so many opportunities to increase taxes on the sly. It also provides massive employment for tax lawyers and advisors. A simple, single flat rate of tax would remove so many layers of bureauocracy that it is anathema to any Government. That's not the same as it not working, by any means.
 
#20
There are only 3 sure things in life - Death, taxes and nurses.
 

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