Humbling of the supertroops shatters Israeli army morale

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Rumrunner, Aug 27, 2006.

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  1. Humbling of the supertroops shatters Israeli army morale

    This is a very interesting article. It seems to explode the myth of IDF invincibility. They have learned some harsh lessons. You may win the air war (not that there ever was one) but only feet on the ground i.e. “Bayonets” will ever win the war. That is a fact of life that has been played out during WW2 and in every conflict since.!



    The last paragraph perhaps says it all?


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2330624,00.html
     
  2. That is the trouble with having a CGS from the air force! It needs someone with 'his feet on the ground' to do the job.

    Unfortunately the IDF does not use the bayonet in it's inventory.
     
  3. It reads like an excerpt from a Frederick Forsyth novel
     
  4. Operation Spring Rain exposed the IDF as a hollow force with many problems caused by budget cuts by several past governments. Not enough body armor for reservists. Looks like the money went to the Gaza/West Bank front. Very little supplies were available for mobilized reservists. The IDF had a number of leadership failures the biggest problem was at the top with Olmert and Halutz. There is the case of one reserve battalion commander who asked to be relieved of command rather than direct his tanks to cover the recovery operation for wounded troops. He felt it was not smart to obey the order as it exposed his tanks to anti-tank missiles. There were cases of friendly fire.

    Alot of heroism was in evidence on the battlefield with many of the dead being officers and NCO's. Had the government exhibited the same courage that the troops did the result would have been very different.
     
  5. Critical comments about the planning, execution and support of operations have been attributed to the chief of the Northern sector (Lt Gen Udi Adam) and other senior officers, and have made directly by scores of regular and reservist personnel.

    One platoon commander refused to undertake an operation and was sentenced to 14 days detention.

    This botched operation cost the lives of 117 Israeli troops and resulted in strategic failure. There will be a wide-ranging inquiry.

    There are parallels with Iraq and Afghanistan. These operations have cost the lives of 136 British personnel. Strategic failure is evident in Iraq and likely in Afghanistan. In both theatres concerns have been raised about the planning, execution and support of operations.

    A wide-ranging inquiry into the Lebanon operation may prevent future errors. There has been no wide-ranging inquiry into the Iraq war, despite critical reports by the House of Commons Defence Committee.

    Despite criticism of the IDF conduct of war, Israel occupies a precarious strategic position. Nevertheless, the wide-ranging inquiry, the critical response of the public and the relative leniency shown to insubordinate troops (14 days detention for refuseniks) contrasts with attitudes in the UK. The UK faced no strategic threat from Iraq, there will be no wide-ranging inquiry, there is a proposed punishment of a life sentence for refusing to serve overseas - the suicide of one soldier recently provides a clear indicator of where this will lead. The casualty rate in Afghanistan is worrying and figures of the wounded are suppressed.

    Why are we not up in arms? What blunder will it take to make heads roll? When will the supine Conseravtive Party start to criticise the ineptly-handled War on Terror?
     
  6. Do you mean Op 'Change of Direction'?
    The supply situation seems to be a familiar story further afield (i.e. other armies) - money only stretches so far.
    Very few actual privates in the IDF in reality, nearly everyone holds an 'NCO' rank due to courses or time served.
     
  7. Surely NCO's and Officers suffer high attrition anyway?
     
  8. It is becoming more and more the case that the officers and NCOs are being attrited at a higher percentage rate than the Toms. Hopefully it will silence some of the critisism about the NCOs and offrs not doing their jobs. There is plenty of clear operational evidence of some very brave acts being carried out by all ranks.

    It is a great shame that once again the media are trying to further undermine the military, this time the IDF. We continue to assist all the terrorist groups by self flagilation and further exposing our areas of weakness - when will we learn.
     
  9. Arik,
    you have it Spot On mate. Armies need to be led (and controlled) by army staffs.

    Air forces enjoy the luxuries of wearing grow bags ((just what goes in the pockets?) and being home for tea.

    Being on the ground and fighting is a very different concept.
     
  10. It's interesting that whilst both sides claimed victory once the firing had ceased, and despite what we may believe of the tactics and the leadership (and the unfortunate losses suffered), the Israeli's will have won in the long term. They have proved or more likely reinforced the fact they you should never underestimate their willingness or capacity to respond to violence.

    It was interesting to see on the beeb last night the scrote from Hezbollah almost apologising for his acts and saying that if they had known what was going to happen they wouldn't have done it...

    I would expect that he and his henchmen are feeling the pinch of unpopularity from those Lebanese returning home to find their homes flattened (some of them having been targeted because they had been used by hezbolah). Whilst the short term anger will have been directed at the Israeli's (and naturally so) the longer term finger will point at Hezbollah.

    I wonder how long it will be before Nasrallah gets to munch on a Israeli rocket... or if they'll leave him alone to be hoisted on a petard by his own people?
     
  11. Hmmm.. not too sure that he will be hung out to dry by the Lebanese. Hizb'allah have for years been not just involved in 'military' side of things. They have built their popularity also on providing medical, educational and other social services to the population. Before you all start jumping down my throat with the arguments about the terrorist / freedom fighter debate I am just trying to put it in perspective (albeit from what I know, which is admittedly from what I have read over the years from a variety of sources, so I make no claims to be an expert or have personal experience) from what the people of Lebanon may be looking at it...While they certainly do not want to arrive back to see their homes destroyed, Hizb'allah are very good at both the PR and community control to maximise the blame that the civilians feel should be directed againsts the Israelis.
    As for the apology about all the damage, Nasrallah is playing the PR game on that...his organisation has built genuine levels of support and I think that if he is for the high jump it will be from internal politics or Iranian influence rather than from the people of Lebanon. Either way, this is just the latest in a series of flare ups that have happened before and will continue to happen for a long time to come. Neither side has the capacity to fully defeat the other militarily and claim a proper victory.. AFAIK historically there have been very few cases of a conventional military force Vs irregular forces ever resulting in complete victory for one side or the other. (possibly with the exception of Malaya and Kenya)