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Hugo Chávez - Hero or Villain

Hugo Chávez - Hero or Villain

  • Hero

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Villian

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
The U.S are seeking to block any attempt for Venezuela to have a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.

It has been reported on the US State Department website that Venezuela has become the Terrorism Hub of South America and it's regime is increasingly out of step with the world.

Is Chávez a worry in the Southern Hemisphere or are the Yanks just upset because he is an ardent critic of their foreign policy?.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#2
Ver, VER interesting dit on Venezuala's importance to the US in Kaplan's
<< Imperial Grunts >> which is a very readable account of US Army /SOF colonial policing...hck,hck ...er....that is ...ah..the War Against Tare around the world from The Philippines via Mongolia to Colombia.......apparentely they get a high proportion of their sweet crude from that neck of the woods.

The US also sought to depose him ( under Bush One I think) in a half-assed coup. It sorta backfired when the local Army regiment remained loyal to the President who had been democratically elected on an overwhelming majority of a free and fair election.

Of course, Chavez is no more the People's Hero that he decks himself out to be than the soon-to-be-The-Late Fidel....

-cf << The Best Democracy Money Can Buy >> by Angeleno Greg Palast


Le Chevre
 
#3
He's a Hero mainly because of the way he upsets the Americans, his giving free heating oil to the American poor last winter in marginal Republican Congressional areas was a stroke of Genius. Notice how anyone who the Yank big business does not like gets tagged with the 'harbouring terrorists' line.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#5
[align=center]
[/align]

[align=center] :twisted: [/align]
[align=center]
Journalist: 'Do you have anything to say to George Bush's comments?
CHAVez: 'Am I bovered, am I bovered tho?'[/align]
 
#9
PartTimePongo said:
VIVA Chavez!!!!!
....God help us.... 8O

It would seem that a person's liking for Chavez is usually in proportion to said person's distance from Venezuela, which goes a long way towards explaining why he's so popular with the usual suspects in the West - oh well, plus ça change... :roll:
 
#10
Or a persons' liking because his mum is from there, still has family there in the Venezuelan lower middle class who all seem happy with Chavez, though they regard him as a bit chavezta?

Ram your pseudo-world weary patronising remarks Gallowglass.
 
#11
Gallowglass - usual suspects? He was democratically elected in EU certified 'free and fair' elections and is very popular with the locals, prehaps not the skulking minority you hang out with in Caracas, miffed at having to pay a minimum wage are they?
 
#12
PartTimePongo said:
Or a persons' liking because his mum is from there, still has family there in the Venezuelan lower middle class who all seem happy with Chavez, though they regard him as a bit chavezta?

Ram your pseudo-world weary patronising remarks Gallowglass.
Oh dear...well (I mean this in a non-patronising manner) your family over there will be lucky to be still part of the Venezuelan lower middle class by the time Chavez is finished with the country. From what I have read in a number of sources - and I'll grant that I don't therefore have the sort of access and insight you have PTP - it seems the the middle class in particular are feeling the blowback of Chavez's policies, else I don't imagine so many of them would be trying to get out. Perhaps your family, if they're going to stay, having little option but "seem happy with Chavez", dissent being something he doesn't apparently take too kindly too. He also seems to have no aversion to extra-democratic practices, as evidenced by his attempted 1992 coup.

A serious question - have their lives improved under Chavez?

He is undoubtedly 'chavesta', and also seems to have an unhealthy fixation with Castro, at whose eventual funeral he will doubtless appear in widow's weeds :wink:

armchair_jihad said:
Gallowglass - usual suspects? He was democratically elected in EU certified 'free and fair' elections and is very popular with the locals, prehaps not the skulking minority you hang out with in Caracas, miffed at having to pay a minimum wage are they?
I know this is wikipedia, but scroll down to 'Criticism' -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Chávez#Foreign_policy

Chavez would not be the first tin-pot dictator to be 'democratically elected'. Does his cuddling-up to such well known 'democrats' as Mugabe , Saddam Hussein (in 2000), and the lunatic-in-chief in Iran not somewhat undermine his democratic credentials in your mind?

(I'd best watch myself on my Pimpernel-like visits to Caracas in future :wink: - wouldn't want to get set-upon by a gang of chavistas, or worse, have to listen to Chavez's televised bore-fest 8O)

*edited for rubbish spelling
 
#13
Good friend of mine works extensively throughout South America, and in Venezuela in particular. He says Chavez is an ex para officer who went to work for and was eventually bankrolled by some guy who had an insurance company. This firm now handles all the Government insurance, and it's owner is substantially wealthier than before.

As for Chavez - he describes him as a a man who preaches socialism and fair do's for all whilst bringing in the fundamentals of a police state. People are learning not to be critical of Mr Chavez in public.

My chum by the way is very Lib Dem and not at all a Republican type, so if he is worried then there is something to worry about.

Sounds very much like the way Peron started, win popularity with the peasantry by a mixture of Nationalism and Xenophobia and clouting the rich whilst building a state security system that eventually reminds everyone who the boss is.
 
#14
Hitler and mussolini were both democratically elected, despite their extremist politics, as was Tony Blair. (shurely shome mishtake? Ed.)
 
#15
Gallowglass quoting wikipedia as your source is not doing you any favours, all rather 'dodgy dossier' old love also I notice that the poll has Chávez in front by popluar vote - prehaps you should organise some sort of coup?
 
#16
armchair_jihad said:
Gallowglass quoting wikipedia as your source is not doing you any favours, all rather 'dodgy dossier' old love also I notice that the poll has Chávez in front by popluar vote - prehaps you should organise some sort of coup?
Actually old sausage, you'll note that I didn't quote wikipedia - of which I did say "I know this is wikipedia" - but rather referenced it. Like you, I take wikipedia with a pinch of salt, but I use it as a reference source, find its external links useful and reliable, and above all I cross-check. It will be far more interesting to watch Chavez implode than actually orgainse a coup...though it would be fun to watch his 'peoples' army' cut and run if anyone does have a crack at his 'Bolivarian Republic' (why must these crack-pots insist on giving their countries such comic-opera titles...?).

Now, care to defend Chavez, or would you rather lay down more argumentative smoke and spilit hairs?
 
#17
No problem Gallowglass lets start with what part of 'He was democratically elected in EU certified 'free and fair' elections' do you not understand or object to?
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#19
gallowglass said:
It would seem that a person's liking for Chavez is usually in proportion to said person's distance from Venezuela, which goes a long way towards explaining why he's so popular with the usual suspects in the West - oh well, plus ça change... :roll:
Kern, that is the mindset that prevents Americans from getting their head around Fidel Castro.

They cannot believe that Fidel is GENUINELY popular with the Cuban people because their message is coming from the Cuban exile population who have done so much for the drugs trade in Miami - all of whom have excellent reasons to DETEST Fidel and everything about the guy.

Similarly, no US Administration wants to believe that any South American population would VOLUNTARILY elect a Socialist who has demanded a much bigger share of Venezuala's oil revenue's for the Government......ergo the elctions 'MUST' have been rigged.....ergo America, bastion of free-trade democracy MUST intervene to restore a friendly government...which, er, has to be kept in place by strong armed forces.....which...er....the US Defense community will be happy to underpin......in return for some of those oil revenues......oh, and as a favor, how about some go-easy legislation for our good ol' friends from Exxon-Mobil and Zunoco ? Attaboy !

The chapter in Palast's book which covers all this is called

' Ya Dance with Them that Brung Ya "

and illuminates the absolutely symbiotic relationship between the Bush Administration currently occupying El Casa Blanco and their bezzers in the US oil companies.

The depressing thing is that it is all publicly available information, quite openly available, rather than the vapourings of a tinfoil milliner......it seems the US general public just don't CARE.

( " hey Buddy, how do you Limeys put it ? Like, Am I BOVVERED man ? " )

Le Chevre
 
#20
armchair_jihad said:
No problem Gallowglass lets start with what part of 'He was democratically elected in EU certified 'free and fair' elections' do you not understand or object to?
I understand it clearly, but like I said, Chavez would not be the first dictator to be 'freely and fairly elected'. Have you read any of the criticsms that have been levelled at him by such American lackeys as...Amnesty International?

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the EU - like the UN - wouldn't or couldn't guess eggs if it saw the shells; just think back to the legion of assorted EU, UN and OSCE 'observers' swanning about the Balkans in the 1990s.

Doubtless you'd have been standing in the ruins of Berlin in May 1945 frantically screaming 'But Hitler was elected! He was elected!'

Note: as the above sentence caused offence to armchair_jihad, I am posting - though not editing in the interests of fair play, as the error was mine - that it should have read 'Doubtless there would have been some who would metaphorically have been standing in the ruins of Berlin in May 1945 frantically screaming 'But Hitler was elected! He was elected!'
 

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