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Hueys instead of Lynx

#1
Sunday Telegraph today (page 18) in its entirety.

"The dismal story of how our Army in Iraq is given the wrong equipment continues. To carry out a range of vital tasks, from surveillance to providing air taxi services, its only helicopters are six Lynxes, designed for use in Northern Europe, hopelessly unsuited to hot conditions and continually breaking down. Much more appropriate to the job in every way would be Bell 212s (known as Hueys), which are very much cheaper and more reliable, suited to the heat, carry more people and are used by the US, Iraqi and other armies.
Our Army has six Hueys in Belize, and the RAF uses another version to run a free air-sea rescue service for the government of Cyprus. Ann Winterton, the Tory backbench MP who is more on the ball than her party's entire defence front-bench team put together, therefore asked the Ministry of Defence (MoD) for the comparable operating costs of its Lynes and Hueys. A Lynx, she was told on Friday, costs £23,000 an hour, a Huey £2000. So which does the MoD supply to our soldiers in Basra? The one that continually breaks down and costs 10 times as much to run.
And we are not talking peanuts here. At 100 hours a month operating time, this means we are spending around £150 million a year more than necessary, to provide our troops with much less efficient aircraft. Think of that next time you hear our Army in Iraq is "underfunded"."

If we did have Hueys instead of Lynxes just think about the savings that would be made on aircrew rations as well. We are talking peanuts, LOTS and LOTS. :D
 
#2
And how much to train/convert aircrew, maintenance, spares, training of maintenance personnel integration of comms/navaids? Not that i am defending the tossers in office but these simplistic ramblings from the media are infuriating. Having seen the complete fcuk up that the MoD have made of aircraft maintenance in the past four years, not only in fast jet but the rotary world as well, i can only say that we are lucky to get any assets in the air at all. :frustrated:
 
#4
Must buy British, doesn't matter if the kit is WNAK
Hueys are better in Hot-dry conditions
but it doesn't keep Brits in jobs in the west country does it?
 
#5
If the answer is Lynx. WTF was the question. Might help if the feckers at fleetlands got off their collective DARA arrses and did a full days work (yes i have worked for DARA, as both permy and connie scum) maybe all those assets sat around in bits could be put to good use.
 
#6
Darthspud said:
Must buy British, doesn't matter if the kit is WNAK
Hueys are better in Hot-dry conditions
but it doesn't keep Brits in jobs in the west country does it?
Exactly - it is another one of those procurements that would be cheaper to buy US and give each and ever worker in Westlands a million redundancy payout. Instead the line of "must keep british skills"......personally I'd just do as most other nations with real budgetary limitations do and reverse engineer stuff bought in.

The UK protection of some defence manufacturers is getting harder and harder to justify me thinks. We are no longer a world power....most other than HMG have recognised the fact already.
 
#7
in_the_cheapseats said:
Powers that be - The answer is "Lynx",
To be more precise, the answer is a thinly disguised maritime Lynx, with b0llocks all thought having gone into the battlefield derivative.

Lynx is a fine helicopter, but we've ragged the fleet and are in hock to Wastelands for the replacement.
 
#8
maninblue said:
Give the Yanks are building variants of Merlin (see http://www.teamus101.com/222.cfm ) on their own soil surely its not beyond the wit of man for us to build US aircraft under licence on our own soil? Thus ensuring we get decent kit at a relatively low cost and supporting the British defence industry.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha WAH64 Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.

I do hope that you are being ironic.
 
#9
Victorian_Major said:
maninblue said:
Give the Yanks are building variants of Merlin (see http://www.teamus101.com/222.cfm ) on their own soil surely its not beyond the wit of man for us to build US aircraft under licence on our own soil? Thus ensuring we get decent kit at a relatively low cost and supporting the British defence industry.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha WAH64 Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.

I do hope that you are being ironic.
And while were at it, get a copy of the chinook build it yourself guide.
 
#12
I was rather surprised at the introduction of the Griffin - or UH1N as the spams call it. It would make more logical sense for the AAC to use this type rather than the Lynx. The Lynx - if it's so costly - should be phased out ASAP in lieu of the Griffin. Buy a shed load off the shelf for starters and license build subsequent airframes at Westland's like the AH64 and whilst we're at it, replace the Gazelle with H6s and build them too.

The Andrew can still faff with their Lynxes if they want to - or until they fall out of the sky, or they too could eventually opt for the Griffin. The USMC have no problems with this type for over water operations, though the Lynx has a good search radar. The SAR Griffins in use by 84 are apparently quite limited in payload and search capability so a VAS bloke was telling me.
 
#13
maninblue said:
Give the Yanks are building variants of Merlin (see http://www.teamus101.com/222.cfm ) on their own soil surely its not beyond the wit of man for us to build US aircraft under licence on our own soil? Thus ensuring we get decent kit at a relatively low cost and supporting the British defence industry.
And where do you think the shaved chimp's personal chopper is being built?????
AFAIK the majority of Westland rotary winged products up to Lynx and Gazelle were licence built Sikorsky cabs.
 
#15
I travelled around for 2 years in Dhofar,during that war, in Bell 205(the European version of the Huey UH-1B).Great piece of kit in mountains and hot climates.Takes a lot of groundfire.The crabs sent out some Wessex,with 2 of everything,which had nowhere near the performance.Guys who had only flown fixed wing before,converted to Huey in 6 weeks,so what's the problem with rotary wing guys converting quite quickly? or is it an RAF thing?
 
#18
OK not sure about Gazelle being built by the cider farm but converting lynx drivers would be non crab air.
(last thing westlands built that had any potential would be the whirlwind with a pair of merlins instead of the crappy engines that were fitted) :D
 
#20
rockhoppercrab said:
OK not sure about Gazelle being built by the cider farm but converting lynx drivers would be non crab air.
(last thing westlands built that had any potential would be the whirlwind with a pair of merlins instead of the crappy engines that were fitted) :D
The Gazelle is a French design license built by Westland.

Both the Whirlwind (S55/H19) and Wessex (S58/H34) were US designs (Sikorsky). There was nothing crappy about the engines either. The early Whirlwinds (HAS1s & 3s) used Wasps and Cyclone radial piston plants, whilst the HAS5s used the British Alvis Leonides Major engine (that was slightly problematic). The introduction of the RR Gnome turboshaft on the HAR9s & 10s solved this, and the type went on to do sterling service in Borneo and elsewhere - especially in the SAR role.

The turbine-powered Wessex was also a Westland product (the US military never operated turbine converted S58Ts). The HAS1s and 3s used British Napier Gazelles and the transport variant HC2s, HCC4s and HU5s used the same Gnomes as the later Whirlwinds.

Alas, all this happened in the days when 'logic', 'common' and 'sense' weren't dirty words and when we could actually achieve things without targets, budget restraints and interfering politicos at every single turn of the screw.
 

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