HS2 route.

#1
Countryside 'devalued to make way for HS2’ - Telegraph

I'm all for a better more capable rail network, esp if it gets more cars and what not off the roads, and a direct link to the continent is certainly a plus.

But why is it neccesary to tear up our precious green belt? Are they seriously suggesting there are no existing routes that could be modified for use?

What about running it up the middle of the M40?
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
The real question is whether HS2 is needed at all, or whether that money could be better spent on infrastructure improvements elsewhere. It's a LOT of money to spend just to be in Birmingham, what, 20 minutes quicker?
 
#3
Sod the much over vaunted 'green belt' after all, only 11% of Britain is urbanized, just build a modern, effective and affordable rail network.
 
#4
Sod the much over vaunted 'green belt' after all, only 11% of Britain is urbanized, just build a modern, effective and affordable rail network.
They are almost definitly using the concentration of 10,000 people per Km2 as 'urban'.

me I use anywhere with concrete.

Only 13% of England is Green belt.
 
#5
I was once told by a senior DTp person (two in fact) that the only reason the M40 was built was to make it easier for MP's to drive into London. I'm beginning to suspect that HS2 is similar. I think that they could have another drink in the extra 20 mins that it now takes.
 
#6
They are almost definitly using the concentration of 10,000 people per Km2 as 'urban'.

me I use anywhere with concrete.

Only 13% of England is Green belt.


Go to Google maps and use satellite view and you epwill see that England is still overwhelmingky green.
 
#7
Go to Google maps and use satellite view and you epwill see that England is still overwhelmingky green.
Just because trees are taller than houses does not mean that most of UKis undeveloped. You can hardly see anything of my town on Google maps satellite, yet its a normal densely built-up urban area.
 
#10
We are having similar issues with the environmentalists and the “green people”, even though we are “paysants”, and trying to improve the rail-links in Breizh especially the Ligne à Grand Vitesse which will reduce journey time between Paris to Kemper or Brest by nearly 40% once complete. Plus we are trying to build multi-modal platforms at Brest, Kemper, Roazhon, Saint-Brieg, Gwengamp, Montroulez, An Oriant, An Aire, Gwened, and Redon in an attempt to reduce the lorry traffic on the two major roads that run east-west across our region and also reduce pollution. Whilst it is all well and good to object to such major infrastructure development in the short-term one must look at the long term benefits.

Lower harmful emissions
A reduction in heavy vehicles on the roads
Improved transport links
Lower prices in the shops – yes, lower prices. It is possible to move three tonnes of goods by a multi-modal system for the same price as one tonne of goods are moved by road.

Over time the environmentalists here have objected to wind-farms, solar-farms, ground-source heating plants even nuclear power stations and hydroelectric schemes. Now they have realized they have been made to look stupid because the cost of electricity here is 40% lower than the UK, they have found a new thing to object to – Railways. Again these people will be proved wrong, railways are the future even though building them makes a mess even when the construction is done sympathetically; maybe a vociferous few are hiding the truth from you for their own mean ends. They will not be complaining when their kilo of potatoes is cheaper in 2016 than they are today.

Yes, I am very ecologically minded, care passionately about “my” planet and my home has a ZERO carbon footprint but do not suffer fools gladly. If running high-speed freight and passenger trains means my children and my children’s, children’s, children have the chance of a better quality of life who am I to deny them. I say to my UK friends: Build your railway and let the devil go to Arcadia
 
#11
There are already two lines between London and Birmingham. I doubt the new one will actually do anything of value.
One of the lines was originally a 4-line track, since reduced to 2. That one only goes to the centre of Birmingham (although it does go through Solihull, which is closer to the NEC than a straight line route.
The proposal calls for three major rail lines between two cities within a band about 20km wide.
The new line is not a freight line.

If railways are to be built it needs to be done honestly and openly.
Still waiting on that one.
 
#12
Why would anyone actually want to GO to Birmingham, let alone faster. I'd be dragged kicking and screaming!
Who asked you to go there? That's right no one, so Shhh,

The fact remains a high speed link is required along with a massive investment in the rail network in general as its been woefully under invested over the past several decades in favour of road (see where that has gotten us). That way you put all your freight on the rails where it belongs and people and if its felt that they are second thoughts, its because they are Rail was always intended for freight.

As for the NIMBY, don't build anything ever. leading to "OH why oh why can I not get anywhere" its because the of the nature of the modern British person so terrified of actually doing something that we have this eternal debate.

Their trees they will grow back somewhere else along with all the little birds and newts and god only knows what else they think will die forever if you build anything

JUST GET ON AND BUILD THE DAMN THING.
 
#13
There are already two lines between London and Birmingham. I doubt the new one will actually do anything of value.
One of the lines was originally a 4-line track, since reduced to 2. That one only goes to the centre of Birmingham (although it does go through Solihull, which is closer to the NEC than a straight line route.
The proposal calls for three major rail lines between two cities within a band about 20km wide.
The new line is not a freight line.

If railways are to be built it needs to be done honestly and openly.
Still waiting on that one.
Exactly. Unfortunately, I think it's become a bit of a political vanity project - it can't be backed away from but shouldn't really have got as far as it already has.
 
#14
Go to Google maps and use satellite view and you epwill see that England is still overwhelmingky green.
Have to agree with you on that one,I started working on the back of Hercs last year and have since flown the length and breadth of the UK and was really suprised at how much is still countryside to a point where Ive thought they could knock up a few new towns quite easily down there and there'd be plenty of countryside left,albeit a lot is farmland as opposed to woodland. Have now come to the conclusion that the UK is not the decaying concrete "Broken Briton" the Daily Lies like to spout off about everyday.
 
#15
Instead of building new lines, why not use the ones we have better?

Installing much better controls of trains could allow a high speed train to use existing tracks straight from Edinburgh through Dover, to France. Maybe even carrying cars and freight.

If we need to change teh gauge, not a problem, we can use multi-gauge tracks for a while.

That and better public transport (trams, trains and busses) in our cities, also encompassing 'boris bikes' and 'Chocolate Cars'*.

* Electric cars that can be hired cheaply and easily once a registration process has been completed online and in person (once).
 
#16
I like the idea of high speed rail but likea lot of things this is a good idea thats going to be implemented badly :(

We cant get all freight off the roads but we could get a sed load off wont happen though.
 
#17
The real question is whether HS2 is needed at all, or whether that money could be better spent on infrastructure improvements elsewhere. It's a LOT of money to spend just to be in Birmingham, what, 20 minutes quicker?
A rather disingenuous comment that misses the point that it is designed to eventually go to Scotland via Manchester etc. Whether it is the right route, I agree is open to discussion, indeed electrifying the Chiltern route might make more sense, but then that would subtract from fares revenue from the flagship West Coast Main Line... and we can.t have that can we.

Personally, I would give Birmingham the high port and build direct to Manchester, where the speed would really cut down joruney time and open up the North as well as providing the portal to Scotland.
 
#18
Instead of building new lines, why not use the ones we have better?

Installing much better controls of trains could allow a high speed train to use existing tracks straight from Edinburgh through Dover, to France. Maybe even carrying cars and freight.

If we need to change teh gauge, not a problem, we can use multi-gauge tracks for a while.

That and better public transport (trams, trains and busses) in our cities, also encompassing 'boris bikes' and 'Chocolate Cars'*.

* Electric cars that can be hired cheaply and easily once a registration process has been completed online and in person (once).
No need to change the gauge for most of Europe, unless you are thinking of Spain, Portugal or ... RUSSIA!

As to control, we have ETMS. As to your other points, I suggest Modern Railways and their Mr Ford, who rather takes a sabre to all governments with their spending claims for rail and the implementation of said plans. He makes I laugh!
 
#19
Installing much better controls of trains could allow a high speed train to use existing tracks straight from Edinburgh through Dover, to France. Maybe even carrying cars and freight.
Car Carriers.....Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier, was in service in the 60's.

It would take a hell of a lot more than better controls to allow high speed running,
except maybe on the racetrack between Northallerton-York or Grantham-Peterboro'
try to imagine 150mph+ speeds between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Think of all the bottlenecks with restrictions...Newcastle, Darlington, York, Doncaster
and so on and thats only the old LNER route.

LMS..Carlisle, Preston, Crewe, Rugby and so on, not to mention Shap or Beattock Banks

Change the Gauge? are you a distant relative of Brunel or do you intend to run this
imaginary Railway into Moscow?
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#20
Car Carriers.....Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier, was in service in the 60's.

It would take a hell of a lot more than better controls to allow high speed running,
except maybe on the racetrack between Northallerton-York or Grantham-Peterboro'
try to imagine 150mph+ speeds between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Think of all the bottlenecks with restrictions...Newcastle, Darlington, York, Doncaster
and so on and thats only the old LNER route.

LMS..Carlisle, Preston, Crewe, Rugby and so on, not to mention Shap or Beattock Banks

Change the Gauge? are you a distant relative of Brunel or do you intend to run this
imaginary Railway into Moscow?
If it costs me over £200 at peak time to get from Wakefield to London, what would it cost to transport my car?
 

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