HRH William welcomed by most senior soldier in the Army?????

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#1
Saw this on the Army Intranet.

Edited as the link didn't work, and strictly speaking DII is a bit "shhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
Woopert


If you can't be bothered to check the link this is what it says:


"They were welcomed by the Commandant of the Academy, Major General Andrew Ritchie, and were introduced to the Academy Sergeant Major, Warrant Officer Class 1 Simon Nichols. The Academy Sergeant Major, who is the most senior soldier (rather than officer) in the Army, is responsible for the discipline of both the staff and students at the academy, and is also in charge of making sure that the students' drill is of an appropriate standard."


Really??? I know a conductor who would have something to say about that. The G3 Heros hate hearing that Loggies have a more senior appointment than all of them. I love it!!
 
#2
Always fun when the PR people know less than their audience. They seem to see their task as rewording things to justify their existence, thus introducing errors.

[sarcasm] They're worth every penny we spend on them [/sarcasm]
 
#3
"The G3 Heros hate hearing that Loggies have a more senior appointment than all of them".
Hasn't this argument been on Arrse before?. Is this in QR's ? Doesn't it say that Conductor is the equal appointment as ASM, RMAS as it is in the same group and not senior. If it was the senior appointment then it would appear on its own in group 1 and all others in subsequent groups as defined below

Warrant Officer - class 1

(i)

Conductor, RLC
Royal Artillery Sergeant Major
Academy sergeant major, RMAS
Garrison sergeant major London District


(ii)

Master gunner, RA.


(iii)

Garrison sergeant major (except London District).


(iv)

Regimental corporal major
Regimental sergeant major.
Bandmaster
Staff sergeant major. RLC or AGC(SPS)
Sergeant major
Any other appointment on the establishment of a unit or corps carrying the rank of warrant officer, class 1, e.g. artificer sergeant major, superintending draughtsman.
 
#4
I'm sure this has been debated ad infinitum on arrse, so I don't want to rekindle it but here is an extract from the royal warrent which established conductors:

By Royal Warrant of 11 January, 1879, a class of Warrant Officers was constituted, “to assist in the discharge of the subordinate duties of the Commissariat and Transport and of the Ordnance Store Departments of our Army, to be denominated ‘Conductors of Supplies’ and ‘Conductors of Stores’ respectively. Their position in our Army shall be inferior to that of all commissioned officers and superior to that of all non-commissioned officers. Conductors shall at the same time have full power to exercise command over any subordinates of the Departments of our Army, or non-commissioned officers or soldiers of our Army, who may be placed under their orders”. #

I only really wanted to point out that even our own Defence Intranet doesn't seem to know what the score is!
 
#6
True, but then you could say the same thing about a million other peculiarities about the way business in conducted in this country, such as the way the house of Lords and the House of Commons operate. No body seems to have repealed that particular Warrent so I guess it still stands.
 
#9
I recently read Peter Ratcliffe's book regarding his 25 years in the SAS. Near the conclusion of the book, he has to arrange the funerals for 3 of the men who were killed on the ill-fated Bravo-Two Zero patrol. He picks up the phone to RMAS and speaks to the RSM who he calls "The most senior RSM in the Army".
 
#10
NAP6W said:
I recently read Peter Ratcliffe's book regarding his 25 years in the SAS. Near the conclusion pof the book, he has to arrange the funerals for 3 of the men who were killed on the ill-fated Bravo-Two Zero patrol. He picks up the phone to RMAS and speaks to the RSM who he calls "The most senoir RSM in the Army".
Seconded
 
#11
So someone writes something in a book. Big deal! I'm this guy was excellent at his job but if he's like the rest of the G3 fraternity then he's probably got his head stuck in the sand over this issue.

Listen guys I'm not offering opinion, but fact. You can check any OFFICAL documents you like - you might not like it, but be sure to make sure any WO1 you meet stands back for a conductor. They can be recognised by the Laurel Wreath they wear around their Royal Coat of Arms like an SQMS wears around their Crown.

[Enter stage left] G3 bloke with an inferiority complex.

[Cue] more slagging off....

......and action.
 
#13
Louis_Cyph said:
You can check any OFFICAL documents you like.
As already shown, QR's above doesn't support your assertion. Yes there are peculiarities associated with the conductor appt but the hard cold fact is they are equal in appt not senior. Yes they may be an older appt but still not senior QR's refers. :lol:
 
#14
NAP6W said:
I recently read Peter Ratcliffe's book regarding his 25 years in the SAS. Near the conclusion of the book, he has to arrange the funerals for 3 of the men who were killed on the ill-fated Bravo-Two Zero patrol. He picks up the phone to RMAS and speaks to the RSM who he calls "The most senior RSM in the Army".
A correct statement amongst RSM's but, a Conductor is not an RSM. As quoted earlier, "the Conductor is junior to all Officers and senior to all Non-commissioned Officers" .... If we were to continue with this argument and disagree with the Royal Warrant of 1879, then we might as well do away with Regimental Seniority and Precedence and operate on a "first comes gets right flank on parade basis"! I'm fairly condfident that the likes of the Household Cavalry and the HAC might mount a vigorous argument against such a free for all!
Anyway, when does the press ever get anything right with regard to military etiquette?
 

mysteron

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
I am not one for inter corps/Regimental slagging. It does nothing but create friction. Does it actually matter?

AcSM does host the congregation of all RSMs annually and chairs it himself.

Does that make him the most Senior RSM in the Army. Yes, I think it does. Does that make him the senior soldier well by your arguments, yes as well. Why, because you say that a "Conductor" is above Non Commisioned Officers (i.e. soldiers) and below commissioned officers. So does that put him on the par with an Officer Cadet? I'll leave you to argue that one out. It does not matter.

Stop whinging that G3 attitudes are more superior that G4, etc, etc. BORING!!!

Message to all: We are on the same team. Stop crying, irrespective of capbadge and lets pull together in the same direction. Dry your eyes and get a back bone and let us re-discover what it is all about being in a wholly joined team.

Lets face it. As time marches on, the nearer we come to permanent battle grouping under the same cap badge with a full logistical and ES piece.
So work together now and forge the links to make the inevitable happen in an easier way for our young soldiers and future generations.

Rant ends.
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#17
forniup said:
NAP6W said:
I recently read Peter Ratcliffe's book regarding his 25 years in the SAS. Near the conclusion pof the book, he has to arrange the funerals for 3 of the men who were killed on the ill-fated Bravo-Two Zero patrol. He picks up the phone to RMAS and speaks to the RSM who he calls "The most senoir RSM in the Army".
Seconded
But the man in charge of Parades & drill is GSM Londist, so he rang the wrong guy.
 
#18
You have to remember that Peter Radcliff came out of the Army in 1993, and the chapter in his book pertains to that time. I am not arguing, I was just adding an aside to the discussion to aid the members involved.
 
#19
K80RMG said:
NAP6W said:
I recently read Peter Ratcliffe's book regarding his 25 years in the SAS. Near the conclusion of the book, he has to arrange the funerals for 3 of the men who were killed on the ill-fated Bravo-Two Zero patrol. He picks up the phone to RMAS and speaks to the RSM who he calls "The most senior RSM in the Army".
A correct statement amongst RSM's but, a Conductor is not an RSM. As quoted earlier, "the Conductor is junior to all Officers and senior to all Non-commissioned Officers" .... If we were to continue with this argument and disagree with the Royal Warrant of 1879, then we might as well do away with Regimental Seniority and Precedence and operate on a "first comes gets right flank on parade basis"! I'm fairly condfident that the likes of the Household Cavalry and the HAC might mount a vigorous argument against such a free for all!
Anyway, when does the press ever get anything right with regard to military etiquette?
Unfortunately no one has been able to explain why QR's 1975 which is the authority for Regimental Seniority and Precedence does not put the Conductor appointment above the ASM RMAS but equal to it. If the appt is senior It would be shown in QR's
 
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