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HR issue - Anyone know about notice periods?

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#2
Do you have a copy of your contract which shows your notice period?

Unless your employer can prove in writing that your terms have been amended with your agreement after the initial contract had been agreed, then the notice period is as stated in the contract.

If you want to walk because of "intimidation", then that is up to you but you would potentially be in breach of your contract. Your employer could view this as you attempting to avoid your notice period in order to start working for a competitor sooner that your contractual terms would allow. You may have to defend your decision by way of an employment tribunal to justify your actions.
 
#3
I really don't think any company is going to waste its own time & money to pursue an ex-employee for moving on. The cost of any action far outweighs their own legal costs should they decide to go after you. Any bad publicity won't be good for their PR either. Never heard of anything happening to anyone in middle level management in the 20+ yrs i've spent in the construction/design industry. Having said that keep records of all convos & digital comms.

Leave at your months notice & crack on. Fcuk them off at the high port.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#4
And I know of a number of people who have lost a lot of money due to breaching their restrictive covenants when changing employers. If the project his new employer wants him to work on is in competition with his old employer, any action outside of contract exposes him.

The contract is the deciding factor. You need to do what you agreed to, or what may subsequently be agreed by both parties. Either side making a unilateral decision to ignore the contract allows the other side to take action. Do so at your own risk.
 
#5
The normal notice period is one week per year of service unless stated otherwise in a written contract signed by both parties. During the notice period, you are entitled to pay for sick leave and vacation or pay in lieu of the vacation time off.

Your HR department should have a copy of the contract if not you are on good ground unless you have worked there for 8 years or more. Your company may threaten legal action against you but the courts allow former employees to actively search for and obtain gainful employment and will take this into account. Document all harassment by the company (send incriminating e-mails to your home e-mail address if you have to). In my opinion though it is better to work with your present company, you never know when you might need that glowing reference from your old bosses for a new company, in other words don't burn your bridges. keep your next employer in the know, let them know what the situation is.

More info here.

Get free advice about handing in your notice and pay rights from the Acas Helpline.
Acas Helpline
Telephone: 0845 747 47 47
Text relay: 18001 0845 747 47 47
Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm
Saturday, 9am to 1pm
Find out about call charges

If you can’t resolve a dispute about your notice pay with your employer informally, you can follow your company’s grievance procedures.
If this doesn’t work, you may be able to make a complaint to an employment tribunal for breach of contract.




Mo
Get free advice about handing in your notice and pay rights from the Acas Helpline.
Acas Helpline
Telephone: 0845 747 47 47
Text relay: 18001 0845 747 47 47
Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm
Saturday, 9am to 1pm
Find out about call charges

If you can’t resolve a dispute about your notice pay with your employer informally, you can follow your company’s grievance procedures.
If this doesn’t work, you may be able to make a complaint to an employment tribunal for breach of contract.
 
#8
Could you request unpaid leave ? Will you be considered AWOL if you just walk at the end of the notice period you gave ? Can you calculate the holiday leave you have accrued and request that as from 28 August ? Even if it's not a month's worth, could you negotiate a mix of annual leave and unpaid leave so you can get out of the place ?

Despite your opinion of them, they might wish to shaft you in the future regarding your reference should you request one.
 
#9
Just hoping someone out there may know the answer.

Resigned on Wednesday the 28th of August by letter. The letter stated that "...one months notice, therfore my finish date would be the 28th of Septmeber. However, I have holidays still to take so I would appreciate confirmation of my leaving date..."

The company I am moving too called on the Friday to say, "We need a start date as we have a project we want you to lead". So, based on not hearing back from HR despite a request Thursday and Friday, I told them I could start Monday the 30th of September. (one month notice).

In speaking to HR yesterday to ask why I had not received acknowledgement of my resignation and finish date i was told that actually, it was a 2 month notice period.

Today, 8 days later, I still do not have written confirmation.

There are further complications reguarding intimidation and bullying and yesterday, the person I am having issues with was sent to "pursuade me to stay". This ended up in this person once more trying to intimidate me. I asked for HR representation to which I was told no. I walked out the "meeting" and went straight to HR.

So, story goes, I want to leave NOW because of the continued intimidation, the company is refusing to let me go despite the bullying and intimidation. I am going to a direct competitor. I have told my new employer I start in a months time.

Where do I stand?
You could just walk out after payday.

Some companies would offer you some incentive to stay, if you turned that down they may just say go, without having to work your notice.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#10
It might be worth your while trying to negotiate some sort of compromise based on the reasons you gave. Perhaps work for 28 days then terminate contract early with full release in exchange for no pay?

Make sure that part of the deal is a pre-agreed reference, copy to be taken with you.

Of course, you need to find a suitable person to negotiate with, and they need to be bothered enough to do it.


Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
 
#11
There are two seperate issues here. The first, as you have stated, your contract was changed with your agreement and the notice period is now two months. As you say, your fault for not checking, and they have you banged to rights.

The second, and probably more important is the bullying and intimidation.

"There are further complications reguarding intimidation and bullying and yesterday, the person I am having issues with was sent to "pursuade me to stay". This ended up in this person once more trying to intimidate me. I asked for HR representation to which I was told no. I walked out the "meeting" and went straight to HR."

In my experience this is not short term and has been going on for a while. Have you documented it? Spoken to HR? Made complaints via the CoC? If you have evidence, then personally I would email it HR and CoC and tell them in no uncertain terms you are forced to leave because nothing has been done about it, and you will see them at the Industrial Tribunal. Empty desk and leave.

Unfortunately with bullies they only understand one thing, start playing them at their own game and they soon start panicing and playing ball.

Go and buy a dictaphone or video pen/watch now and then send the email. Record all further meetings.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#12
The normal notice period is one week per year of service unless stated otherwise in a written contract signed by both parties. During the notice period, you are entitled to pay for sick leave and vacation or pay in lieu of the vacation time off.

Your HR department should have a copy of the contract if not you are on good ground unless you have worked there for 8 years or more. Your company may threaten legal action against you but the courts allow former employees to actively search for and obtain gainful employment and will take this into account. Document all harassment by the company (send incriminating e-mails to your home e-mail address if you have to). In my opinion though it is better to work with your present company, you never know when you might need that glowing reference from your old bosses for a new company, in other words don't burn your bridges. keep your next employer in the know, let them know what the situation is.

More info here.

Get free advice about handing in your notice and pay rights from the Acas Helpline.
Acas Helpline
Telephone: 0845 747 47 47
Text relay: 18001 0845 747 47 47
Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm
Saturday, 9am to 1pm
Find out about call charges

If you can’t resolve a dispute about your notice pay with your employer informally, you can follow your company’s grievance procedures.
If this doesn’t work, you may be able to make a complaint to an employment tribunal for breach of contract.




Mo
Get free advice about handing in your notice and pay rights from the Acas Helpline.
Acas Helpline
Telephone: 0845 747 47 47
Text relay: 18001 0845 747 47 47
Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm
Saturday, 9am to 1pm
Find out about call charges

If you can’t resolve a dispute about your notice pay with your employer informally, you can follow your company’s grievance procedures.
If this doesn’t work, you may be able to make a complaint to an employment tribunal for breach of contract.
All good advice, your company even if you don't have a personal contract has to issue a set of Ts and Cs which may show notice on a sliding scale linked to service with a min and max term. Also my current contract doesn't allow for taking leave in lieu of notice but as every firm I've walked from has tried to take money from me I've never worried about a week or twos money and usually bailed straight after pay day!
 
#13
If there is a bullying and harassment issue then you are at liberty to walk immediately and commence proceedings for a constructive dismissal.
Have you followed the published grievance procedure and had your concerns about this persons behaviour both logged and investigated?

If so and your concerns are on record then it may be worth considering (after professional legal advice into your exact circumstances) the constructive angle.

You then have a bargaining chip... Drop the two Months notice period in exchange for dropping potential action.
 
#15
Fill a jerry can with water and add about a tablespoon of petrol to it. Walk in to the boss's office and pour the can over your head. The air will fill with the smell of petrol and by the time you've struck the match your HR issues will have dissolved as quickly as the boss's underwear.
 
#16
Fill a jerry can with water and add about a tablespoon of petrol to it. Walk in to the boss's office and pour the can over your head. The air will fill with the smell of petrol and by the time you've struck the match your HR issues will have dissolved as quickly as the boss's underwear.
Has the pencils, handkerchief and wibble technique ever worked in these circumstances?
 
#18
If there is a bullying and harassment issue then you are at liberty to walk immediately and commence proceedings for a constructive dismissal.
Have you followed the published grievance procedure and had your concerns about this persons behaviour both logged and investigated?

If so and your concerns are on record then it may be worth considering (after professional legal advice into your exact circumstances) the constructive angle.

You then have a bargaining chip... Drop the two Months notice period in exchange for dropping potential action.
I would not bargain with them. The bully is wrong and must be held accountable. The upper managment and HR who have done nothing need to learn that they need to take action in this situation. Invariably you believe you have come to an amicable agreement but then they manage to stiff you and have the last laugh. Bully gets away scott free and continues to bully others.

As I said earlier, you have until the 28th. Collect all emails, ask for meetings and secretly record everything, find those who have "come out of the woodwork" and talk to ex employees this may have happend to. Evidence is key.

Get all your kit home and come the 28th say "I can't continue working in this atmosphere as I have explained on numerous occassions, see you at the tribunal"

Hand all evidence to solicitor.

Start new job on 30th.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
Resigned on Wednesday the 28th of August by letter. The letter stated that "...one months notice, therfore my finish date would be the 28th of Septmeber. However, I have holidays still to take so I would appreciate confirmation of my leaving date..."
Saw your comment later on that you are in fact required to give two months notice. Whatever the notice period, it will have started on 28th August when you notified them of your intent to resign. As you still have holidays to take, there should be two options open to you:

-- Take the holiday to reduce the amount of time you are physically at work.
-- Don't take the holiday. In which case your employer should work out how much unused holiday you have accrued and include pay for it in your final salary payment.

The company I am moving too called on the Friday to say, "We need a start date as we have a project we want you to lead". So, based on not hearing back from HR despite a request Thursday and Friday, I told them I could start Monday the 30th of September. (one month notice).
I would contact your new employer, tell them there was confusion about the length of your notice, and let them know there is a possibility you might need to start later. Don't put off telling them because you might be storing up problems.

So, story goes, I want to leave NOW because of the continued intimidation, the company is refusing to let me go despite the bullying and intimidation. I am going to a direct competitor. I have told my new employer I start in a months time.
When going to a direct competitor it is the general practice of most companies to send you on 'gardening leave'. The idea is that by the time you start at the competitor, your knowledge is beginning to become out of date. Have you told your present employer you're going to a competitor? They may want you out of their offices ASAP.

What you shouldn't do is work for your new employer while still legally contracted to your old one - that could be VERY expensive. Someone I know left a big company to start up on their own. They formed their own company 1 week before their notice period ran out. That cost them several hundred thousand pounds.

Have you also checked about any 'restrictive clauses' in your contract regarding IPR, commercially confidential information, etc. If your present employer doesn't want you to go to a competitor they may play the legal card. My rule of thumb on this is that I will tell any new employer anything that is in the public domain. That can be a lot of information because I know where to look in the first place. And your existing employer can't claim IPR, confidentiality, etc, if you can show the information is freely out there on the internet.

Wordsmith
 
#20
I too have the manager from hell who is bullying, harassing and discriminating against me. HR told me they are there to represent management and the union represent me. Management and HR know there is bullying etc but the senior managers close ranks and even acknowledge lies being told by my manager, on other disciplinary proceedings. I think the idea of putting in a formal complaint or informing them that you are going to an employment tribunal will work and I hope it does
 

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